# Lost 5.9 "Namaste" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913 "2009-03-18T18:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/101 "2009-03-19T22:01:20Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > We all keep forgetting that Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. are not the audience. They really don’t care at all about what dharma was up. Or who Jacob is. Or what the statue was. And so on. Then they qualify as “too stupid to live”. Letting the statue pass? Sure, doesn’t affect their day-to-day lives. But the rest? Their living or dying depends on what Jacob wants, what The Others want, what Dharma was up to (since it can kill them or, maybe, take them home). If that’s the case, let them all just jerk off in a corner until Richard’s nerve gas attack hits. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/102 "2009-03-19T22:01:57Z")
In last night’s episode Christian seemed to be more than simply a ghost or vision because he pulled the picture off the wall and showed it to Sun & Lapidus…but earlier when Locke asked if he could help him get up after he suffered the compound fracture at the bottom of the well Christian said he couldn’t help him. One has to believe that Locke is now the same “thing” as Christian. Another question…is Jacob the same type of being as Christian or something else entirely? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/103 "2009-03-19T22:04:18Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I actually kind of bought this. Remember, this was moments after Jack discovered that Sawyer and Juliet were apparently living together. That must have brought back all of his (Jack’s) jealousy and rivalrous feelings toward Sawyer all over again. Yes, I know Jack and Juliet weren’t ever officially a couple, but they were heading in that direction before Jack left the island. From Jack’s perspective, Sawyer keeps taking his girls. Makes me think Sawyer’s next fake name should be “Jack Cockblocker”. It works on so many levels… One thing about Sawyer: Next time he looks at Kate and gets that round-eyed, slightly-hurt look on his face, I’m gonna croak. Or start to drink. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/104 "2009-03-19T23:22:56Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > In last night’s episode Christian seemed to be more than simply a ghost or vision because he pulled the picture off the wall and showed it to Sun & Lapidus…but earlier when Locke asked if he could help him get up after he suffered the compound fracture at the bottom of the well Christian said he couldn’t help him. One has to believe that Locke is now the same “thing” as Christian. Another question…is Jacob the same type of being as Christian or something else entirely? It could be more of a “you have to do it yourself” speech than an actual inability to help. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/105 "2009-03-20T00:04:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Well - I can accept that as an explanation if tomorrow, or the next day, they sit down and discuss everything Sawyer has learned. But the chances of that are pretty small. > > The characters on the show have always been implausibly uncommunicative, but right now it’s just such a ridiculous degree. Their motivations are illogical or non-existant, they’re just idiot boxes on two legs that walk from scene to scene. Jack is an idiot, and has always been an idiot. This isn’t implausible though, I’ve known several really “smart” idiots. People who act in a way that, if portrayed by an actor on a show, I would think impossible. Sawyer has no motivation to volunteer information to Jack. He doesn’t really like Jack anyway, I’m sure he much prefers being in charge, and the less Jack knows, the better for Sawyer. He knows Jack is going to want to gain control. So, if Jack and Sawyer don’t sit down and have a discussion the next day, the reason will be because Jack is an idiot. It would break his character for him to suddenly wise up. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/106 "2009-03-20T01:38:08Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > We all keep forgetting that Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. are not the audience. They really don’t care at all about what dharma was up. Or who Jacob is. Or what the statue was. And so on. But they do…or should. “The Island” can raise the dead, “The Island” can heal the sick. “The Island” has been manipulating them in ways that have seriously messed up about 5 years of their lives and “wants them back”. They have a vested interest in knowing what the hell is going on. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/107 "2009-03-20T01:59:47Z")
Some interesting bits I’ve been thinking about. I’m pretty sure that it will turn out that Ben really DID remember Sayid and perhaps some others when he was Henry Gale. I mean, he was, after all, pretty invested in NOT recognizing those people since he was faking his identity when we first meet him. And he DOES ask “who are you people!” 🙂 BUUUUT… there’s no way that the writers could have known or planned this when they wrote Ben’s character. Because they didn’t even know at that point that Ben was going to stick around or what his significance was. So Ben having known about these folks all along would definately have to be a retcon of some sort. And the writers must have known that this would be a tricky element when they decided to have Ben meet the time travelers. We’ll see how it works out. but maybe it’s not such an implausible element in the end: Ben did, from the start, have that bizarre attitude of knowing lots of upsetting things about various people: knowledge that he was resigned to, etc. As to ages: many people have pointed out that Charlotte could not have been who Daniel saw in the past because her stated age would be wrong. Well, the show’s writers have said directly that it was her, and that the age was what was screwed up: they claim the actress who played Charlotte changed her age in the script because she didn’t want to be pegged as old. They may have been joking, since that sounds a little implausible, but at the very least, that does seem to have been Charlotte… ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/108 "2009-03-20T02:04:33Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Correct–and that makes little-to-no sense as we understand things–Sun (and probably Lepetius) should be back with the O6. Lepetius was not part of the original crash. No reason for him to synch withe the other survivors. Locke didn’t synch up eiher because he was still dead at the time or because he spun the time wheel. Sun didn’t synch up because she got pregnant on the island and manged to live to give birth off the island. Good thing she didn’t bring her kid with her because the kid might have gone back without her. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/109 "2009-03-20T02:05:39Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > I like Jack’s new laid back, see-what-happens attitude. Some of the old sarcasm and aggression keeps peeking through, but you can see him pushing it back down. I like it too. But can Jack really be Jack without being irritating? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/110 "2009-03-20T02:49:46Z")
I think with a character like Ben you can have him do anything and say anything because he is a master manipulator and usually lying. He’s definitely got the audience fooled - I never ever know when to believe him. That being said - it’s perfectly plausible that Ben had previously met all of the Losties and any way we saw him react to them in the future could have been an act. That is what he does best. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/111 "2009-03-20T02:59:57Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I think with a character like Ben you can have him do anything and say anything because he is a master manipulator and usually lying. He’s definitely got the audience fooled - I never ever know when to believe him. > > That being said - it’s perfectly plausible that Ben had previously met all of the Losties and any way we saw him react to them in the future could have been an act. That is what he does best. Don’t forget that the first thing Ben wanted in Season 2 when he saw the Oceanic flight crash was the passenger manifest. And he specifically asked for Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer to be kidnapped by the Others. Surely it can’t be a coincidence that these were also the Oceanic Six several years later. Even if it wasn’t intentional at the time the Season 2 episodes were written, I think it could make a lot of sense for this being how Ben selected the people to be kidnapped. What I’m afraid of is how Ben got all those injuries before getting on the Ajira flight. I’m afraid that he attacked Penny and her son at the dock! ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/112 "2009-03-20T03:09:06Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > …is Jacob the same type of being as Christian or something else entirely? I’ve said it before,but I’ll repeat it because I don’t feel like looking for my original post. I think Jacob is a multidimensional being, who is somehow stuck in all the shifting time periods. This is why he knows everything that is going on and everything that is going to happen. This is also why you can’t get a good look at him. Didn’t he appear to flicker in one episode? I don"t know if he wants to save the island or if he wants to save himself. Either is possible. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/113 "2009-03-20T03:13:33Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > We all keep forgetting that Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. are not the audience. They really don’t care at all about what dharma was up. Or who Jacob is. Or what the statue was. And so on. That’s supposed to be a defense of them as plausible characters? They’re immersed in the situation. Their lives depend on having a clue what’s going on. Besides that, who wouldn’t want to know wtf was going on when their life was constantly surrounded by the supernatural, danger, and mystery? I mean - they went back to the island voluntarily, so it suggests they’re interested in something. Actually, I have no idea why they went back. The first half of this season was the story of why and how they went back, and I still have no idea. It seemed to be a lot of “We Have To Go Back” “What? Are you crazy? We almost got killed many times. We…” “We Have To Go Back” “But why? We barely escaped the first time. What’s there to go back to?” “We Have To Go Back” “Oh. Okay. I’m in.” ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/114 "2009-03-20T03:28:55Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That’s supposed to be a defense of them as plausible characters? > > They’re immersed in the situation. Their lives depend on having a clue what’s going on. Besides that, who wouldn’t want to know wtf was going on when their life was constantly surrounded by the supernatural, danger, and mystery? > > I mean - they went back to the island voluntarily, so it suggests they’re interested in something. Actually, I have no idea why they went back. The first half of this season was the story of why and how they went back, and I still have no idea. It seemed to be a lot of “We Have To Go Back” “What? Are you crazy? We almost got killed many times. We…” “We Have To Go Back” “But why? We barely escaped the first time. What’s there to go back to?” “We Have To Go Back” “Oh. Okay. I’m in.” I agree in full. This “school” of storytelling is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/115 "2009-03-20T03:34:07Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > I like it too. But can Jack really be Jack without being irritating? Meh. I know there’s lots of people who despise the character of Jack and think he can do no right, but I like the character. He’s not a jerk with a heart of gold, he’s a guy who tries to do what’s best but is so ruled by his own insecurities and arrogance that things usually don’t turn out so great. This season is what I’ve been waiting for, regarding both Jack and Sawyer. They’re both coming into their own. Jack is learning to _really_ listen to others and to let go of his own shit, and Sawyer is learning to be who he is instead of this conman construct he immersed himself in for revenge. And of course the awesomeness of Locke goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/116 "2009-03-20T04:05:23Z")
This show is really amazing - I manage to enjoy each episode in spite of all the storytelling annoyances which have been mentioned here. I agree it hasn’t been explained WHY Kate and Hurley etc decided to go back to the island. I just take on faith that it will be explained at some point and I’m just along for the ride enjoying Sawyer, Miles, Ben, Sun, etc in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/117 "2009-03-20T06:48:52Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Don’t these memories change as people in the past alter the past? Remember Desmond had no memory of talking to Faraday until Faraday actually talked to him in the past. Then suddenly (in present time) the memory just manifested in Desmonds head. I wonder if Ben will have this instantaneous “new” memory of Sayid. Daniel only attempted this because he thought Desmond was “special” and his history could be changed. According to Daniel, everyone else already has their history set - if they go to the past, they already were in the past in that timeline. And Desmond’s memory wasn’t “instantaneous” - it was three years later from the perspective of their personal timelines. If Ben interacts with the Losties, based on the show so far, that would imply that already had those memories. The show hasn’t explained that yet, but it’s likely to address it at some point. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Perhaps Ben didn’t time warp into 1977 because he can’t, as there is already a Ben taking up space in the 1977 island. Baby Miles is implied to be on the island; in any case Sawyer saw Kate and Claire during one of the timejumps, so clearly there’s no problem with there being two versions of yourself on the island at the same time. > [@Dogzilla](#): > > I think our Losties will be directly involved in the purge. But I think it’s entirely possible that our Losties shift from being Dharmites to being Others. The purge is far in the future, I doubt they will be in the past that long. If they show the purge it will either be a flashback or another time jump. They really should join the Others though. Given how important they ended up being to the island, it’s very odd that Jacob didn’t put them on his list to begin with. > [@msmith537](#): > > If Jack is the “Workman” what’s Ben’s dad doing? Or can we assume there is more than one janitor? There’s no “the” before workman. We’ve seen Ben so we can assume Roger Linus is also doing janitorial work in 1977. > [@borschevsky](#): > > It seems more likely that they’ll be involved in the “incident”, which should be coming up soon in the timeline. I agree: The season finale is named “The Incident” > [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > If he was born in 1977, then he’d have only been 27 when season 1 happened. That guy definitely looked older than 27. Charlotte was born in 1970 which makes her 38, being played by a 29 year old actress. Ethan is 27, being played by a 39 year old actor (first season). Not that unusual compared to the twenty something actors that regularly play 15 year old high school students on tv 😉 > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Last episode I thought to myself “Well, Sawyer and crew were Dharma for 3 years. They must’ve learned a ton about Dharma, the island, and the others. I wonder how the writers are going to keep any of that from every coming up.” Jack wouldn’t care. That’s consistent with a key part of his character through out the entire series. Locke would definitely want all the info. Hurley also probably would be asking questions. Miles and Kate tend to have other things on their minds. Sayid just wants to kill Ben. Faraday is off experimenting. Plus, they just arrived and don’t want it to be too obvious that they know each other. Another episode or so, and at least Hurley should be asking questions. What I find more amusing is that now Locke and Lapidus are in the position of shepharding the new Hydra Losties. Especially Locke, having sought answers and found some of them - will he be open and forthcoming with them or secretive and elusive? > [@Bearflag70](#): > > Jack: Locke’s dead. > Sawyer: How did he die? > Jack: It doesn’t matter … he’s gone now. > [crickets] lol! That was great. It shows that they are stupidly vague and elusive, even when the audience already knows the answer! > [@JohnT](#): > > Makes me think Sawyer’s next fake name should be “Jack Cockblocker”. It works on so many levels… I’m wondering why James gave himself a super secret identity but everyone else gets to use their real name. > [@Erdosain](#): > > And he specifically asked for Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer to be kidnapped by the Others. Surely it can’t be a coincidence that these were also the Oceanic Six several years later. He only kidnapped Jack to do surgery on him. He told Juliet they were taking Kate and Sawyer to give Jack incentive. They only took Hurley to act as messenger. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Actually, I have no idea why they went back Jack went back because Locke said they had to to save their friends, and also because his life had turned to shit, and probably also because he got freaked out at seeing his Dad’s ghost. Sun went back because Ben revealed Jin was still alive. Kate, Sayid, and Hurley we don’t know yet, but it was specifically posed as a mystery to be revealed later. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/118 "2009-03-20T09:05:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It could simply be that Dharma Village is a lot more comfortable than camping in the jungle. I think he’s had enough of roughing it. **Hurley** : “I vote for not camping!” ---
**Author:** ![ChuckForbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@ChuckForbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckForbin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/119 "2009-03-20T12:30:05Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Baby Miles is implied to be on the island; in any case Sawyer saw Kate and Claire during one of the timejumps, so clearly there’s no problem with there being two versions of yourself on the island at the same time. > . We don’t know that the baby is Miles. I still think the island is protecting against a person being there twice - keeping Ben out of 1977, and apparently Sun too. For all we know the baby could be Sun. And like the episode where the the two rabbits freaked out Chang, I also agree that “The incident” could be having two copies of someone somehow meet up. I can’t explain how Sawyer saw Kate and Claire, though - unless somehow Sawyer was not on the island. Might that have been the time he was on the other island ? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913/120 "2009-03-20T12:44:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I’m thinking that the creepy guy that Jack asked about Sawyers house is going to get suspicious and rat out the whole Lostie operation. That guy played a doucebag on Mad Men. It looks like they are setting him up to be the same here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-9-namaste/489913.md?page=7)