# LOST 6.11 "Happily Ever After" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170 "2010-04-06T17:47:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![deedeeknowit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@deedeeknowit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deedeeknowit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/61 "2010-04-07T05:25:03Z")
Interesting that Sayid left Liz Lemon…uhh…I mean Zoe, alive. UnLocke must have given him specific directions so that Widmore would know what happened to Desmond. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/62 "2010-04-07T07:28:41Z")
Recorded earlier, watching now (about 2 AM). Commenting as I go: ## Putting Desmond into another “catastrophic electromagnetic event”, huh? Last time Desmond got electromagnetized, he became unstuck in time, bouncing back and forth. Wonder if this time he’ll bounce back and forth between the island universe and the “alternate” flash-sideways reality? Maybe that’s why he was on the plane one moment, then gone (in the season premiere)? ## Dude, so was I right? Or is this just a normal “flash-sideways”. Right now, at LAX, it just looks like an alternate version of events for him, not a jump from where he was (like his prior time flashes, where he seemed to remember events as he jumped). ## Widmore’s right hand man in the side-flash world. Heh. They’re good buddies. Charlie: “You think you got it all. This, your life. Well, you don’t” Desmond: “Why, because none of it’s real?” ## heh… a little subtle “hint?” ## Freaky. ALT Desmond flashes on “Not Penny’s Boat” memory. Does this mean ALT Charlie’s near-death experience involved a crossover or flash to the island timeline? Where he saw Claire, no doubt. ## I’m getting an impression that the ALT timeline is some sort of trick by M.I.B., designed to give the Losties an illusion of situations resulting in happy endings, happier lives, but it’s not real. “What happened, happened.” Heh, now that sounds familiar. ## And like the first time they met in the island timeline, Eloise knows a lot more about what’s going on with Desmond than he does. Looks like somebody has definitely created an illusory happier life for him. Did they do the same for all our Losties? Hmmm, and Daniel the musician (now Widmore, not Faraday) knows things, too? The island timeline and the flash-sideways timeline are definitely beginning to bleed over. ## Daniel’s notebook says, “Real Space Imaginary Time” at the bottom. Other stuff about “Space time” on the sides, but harder to read. So is the ALT timeline “imaginary time”? ## So if Daniel thinks all this isn’t really supposed to be their life, how does he know it’s the result of setting off a nuclear bomb? He might be a little disappointed if he knew what life he was supposed to have (you know, the one with a hole in his chest, pushing up the daisies). Hah – Penny doing the stadium running this time. ## And, at Penny’s touch, he’s back to the island? ## Hmmmm… Desmond understands? Why does he understand? And now he’s going with Sayid. He’s Mr. Agreeable with everybody. So what’s the sacrifice he’s supposed to make? ALT Desmond going to show the remaining 815 passengers what their lives should be? ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/63 "2010-04-07T07:36:42Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > We know the limo driver (Fisher Stevens) from the regular universe, right? Who was he? George, the communications dude on the freighter, season 4. (In fact, his was the first voice from the freighter that we heard at end of season 3, when Jack first contacted the boat with Naomi’s phone). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/64 "2010-04-07T10:32:08Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Violation of that timeline remaining intact? I’m telling you, it’s just like that ST:TNG episode where the crew agree to have their memories of a certain planet erased in exchange for being allowed to leave the planet intact. I think the Losties agreed to have their memories of the island erased in exchange for being allowed to live out this alternate timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/65 "2010-04-07T12:58:51Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I thought it weird that he referred to her as someone who worked for Widmore. I thought she worked in a museum with Miles’ Dad. Can we guess that Widmore owns the museum? We saw him in Season [mumble mumble] purchasing the ship manifest from the Black Rock, right? Presumably, an artifact for his museum… which really isn’t a museum at all, but a timeline roadmap of sorts. I bet that museum is a collection of stuff that all relates back to the island in some way. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/66 "2010-04-07T13:00:11Z")
Great episode. How possible is it that the ALT timeline is Eloise trying to keep a universe intact where she hasn’t killed her son? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/67 "2010-04-07T13:03:37Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’m telling you, it’s just like that ST:TNG episode where the crew agree to have their memories of a certain planet erased in exchange for being allowed to leave the planet intact. > > I think the Losties agreed to have their memories of the island erased in exchange for being allowed to live out this alternate timeline. Right. You get to choose the love of your life – most of the Losties have managed to find love on the island – or you get to live in the Alt timeline, maybe happier, but no love. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/68 "2010-04-07T13:15:15Z")
I think Eloise’s awareness is outside of both time lines. She has been there at a few key points with apparent special insight as to what is happening, and seems to know what is going to happen in the future. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/69 "2010-04-07T13:51:32Z")
For an episode that was supposed to answer some questions, it sure brought up quite a few more. I agree the Eloise seems to be aware of both timelines, and quite consciously. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/70 "2010-04-07T13:57:16Z")
God, what an awesome episode. I hope they only get better from here. Glad Dessy’s back. I think both Desmonds now have pretty deep knowledge or memories of both timelines; in each reality. In the Sideways-verse, like what Charlie showed him, he wants to show to all the O815 passengers. Penny was Desmond’s constant, Claire was Charlie’s, perhaps he has to get all the O815ers in one room, and get them to look into each other’s eyes. I’m very curious to see what this newly enlightened, and unworried Desmond will be doing on the Island. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/71 "2010-04-07T14:23:52Z")
OK, I’ve seen every episode of Lost, and I’ve been lurking on these Lost threads on SD almost as long. I still think Lost is one of the most original, compelling TV show I’ve ever seen, but I have to admit getting concerned about the sand running out of the hourglass without much resolution to just what is going on yet. I enjoy the emotional, character-based aspect of the show, and I enjoyed last night’s episode, but I want me some mysteries revealed too. The writers sure are being stingy with the reveals. i thought this was the season of “No More Questions, Only Answers!”. What has actually been revealed so far this season? [ul] [li]MIB Not-Locke is smoky.[/li][li]The island is a “cork” containing the bad MIB.[/li][li]APPARENTLY there is some epic struggle of Good vs. Evil, or Choice vs. Fate going on between Jacob and MIB.[/li][li]As of last night, the alterna-verse may not result from the nuke or be a flash-forward resolution but from Eloise’s machinations.[/li][/ul] Have I missed anything? There hasn’t been much. Some things, like Richard’s not aging, we saw how it happened n “Ab Aeterna”, but we already knew Jacob did it. I don’t just want “how”, or “what”, I want “why”. And I thought Lindelof and Cruse said a couple seasons back that everything could be explained by non-supernatural reasons (meaning a whole lot of science-fiction I assume). But when you have two semi-immortals in a Yin vs. Yang battle, an ancient lighthouse with a spyglass mirror, and a smoke monster that may or may not be an ancient Egyptian god, can it be explained by any means OTHER than supernatural? Aliens maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/72 "2010-04-07T14:30:52Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I’m getting an impression that the ALT timeline is some sort of trick by M.I.B., designed to give the Losties an illusion of situations resulting in happy endings, happier lives, but it’s not real. Hmmmm. Verrrrryyyyy interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/73 "2010-04-07T14:34:53Z")
Am I the only one who, when Desmond walked into Widmore’s office at the beginning, thought Widmore was going to start talking about Geico insurance? ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/74 "2010-04-07T14:54:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > So, I think we can start to say that this sideways world is not the epilogue to the show. Yeah, and just after I posted in last week’s thread how I like the epilogue theory. Foolish me thinking I’ve got a mental handle on this show. In Widmore’s office, drinking whiskey with BFF Desmond… There was a large painting on the wall of a set of scales. It looked like there was something black on the left pan and something white on the right. Maybe it was the angle but it seemed that the scale was tipping towards the black side. Significant? Does anyone remember the painting in the scene this was the mirror of - the one where Desmond wasn’t worthy enough to drink the whiskey? All I recall is the word “namaste” was scrawled on it. ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/75 "2010-04-07T15:09:18Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Am I the only one who, when Desmond walked into Widmore’s office at the beginning, thought Widmore was going to start talking about Geico insurance? Ha! Right on. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/76 "2010-04-07T15:16:16Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I enjoy the emotional, character-based aspect of the show, and I enjoyed last night’s episode, but I want me some mysteries revealed too. The writers sure are being stingy with the reveals. i thought this was the season of “No More Questions, Only Answers!”. What has actually been revealed so far this season? > … > And I thought Lindelof and Cruse said a couple seasons back that everything could be explained by non-supernatural reasons (meaning a whole lot of science-fiction I assume). But when you have two semi-immortals in a Yin vs. Yang battle, an ancient lighthouse with a spyglass mirror, and a smoke monster that may or may not be an ancient Egyptian god, can it be explained by any means OTHER than supernatural? Aliens maybe? I think the “season of answers!!” thing is just the ABC marketing department doing what they do. I wonder if the network realizes how much people are bugged by the misleading previews (not to mention stuff like the V thing last week). Anyway, I think that this season is progressing pretty much like the other seasons have, and I think that all the big reveals will only come in the last episode or two. I think they’ve said that their early claims that the show had a non-supernatural explanation were just to get people to give the show a try early on. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/77 "2010-04-07T15:28:22Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > I think Eloise’s awareness is outside of both time lines. She has been there at a few key points with apparent special insight as to what is happening, and seems to know what is going to happen in the future. Is she…the third party that keeps the first and second parties from violating the rules? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/78 "2010-04-07T15:59:02Z")
So…limo drivers have access to flight manifests in the ATL? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/79 "2010-04-07T16:04:44Z")
Opinion of the episode: I have no idea what is going on, but for the first time I am starting to care about the ATL and have a little more hope for the final season. Great job by Henry Ian Cusick. As others have said, he always brings a good episode. I started to get annoyed that we didn’t see much at all on island, but when it started getting Twilight Zone-ish, I couldn’t have cared less. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > So, I think we can start to say that this sideways world is not the epilogue to the show. I agree. There is something wrong with that Universe which I think the island universe need to correct. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > OMFG I love this episode! Maybe Lost is all about the power of LOVE I don’t want to see a _Fifth Element_ ending. Ironically, just yesterday I saw the episode of the Simpsons where Professor Frink is trying to determine the secret ingredient of the Flaming Moe. “And the secret ingredient is… LOVE! Who’s been screwing with this thing?” > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > So are people basically in agreement that the alternate timeline only diverges after the bomb blast on the island? Like, there aren’t any weird timey-wimey effects that extend back in time to before the bomb went off? I cannot think of any Pre-77 changes. > [@](#): > > And Eloise must certainly know about the other timeline. And she mentioned that Desmond meeting Penny would be a violation. Violation of that timeline remaining intact? This was the moment that hooked me into the ATLs. It is like they are building to something. > [@solost](#): > > OK, I’ve seen every episode of Lost, and I’ve been lurking on these Lost threads on SD almost as long. I still think Lost is one of the most original, compelling TV show I’ve ever seen, but I have to admit getting concerned about the sand running out of the hourglass without much resolution to just what is going on yet. > > I enjoy the emotional, character-based aspect of the show, and I enjoyed last night’s episode, but I want me some mysteries revealed too. The writers sure are being stingy with the reveals. i thought this was the season of “No More Questions, Only Answers!”. What has actually been revealed so far this season? > > [ul] > [li]MIB Not-Locke is smoky.[/li][li]The island is a “cork” containing the bad MIB.[/li][li]APPARENTLY there is some epic struggle of Good vs. Evil, or Choice vs. Fate going on between Jacob and MIB.[/li][li]As of last night, the alterna-verse may not result from the nuke or be a flash-forward resolution but from Eloise’s machinations.[/li][/ul] > > Have I missed anything? There hasn’t been much. Some things, like Richard’s not aging, we saw how it happened n “Ab Aeterna”, but we already knew Jacob did it. I don’t just want “how”, or “what”, I want “why”. > > And I thought Lindelof and Cruse said a couple seasons back that everything could be explained by non-supernatural reasons (meaning a whole lot of science-fiction I assume). But when you have two semi-immortals in a Yin vs. Yang battle, an ancient lighthouse with a spyglass mirror, and a smoke monster that may or may not be an ancient Egyptian god, can it be explained by any means OTHER than supernatural? Aliens maybe? I feel we got a really good WHY regarding Richard’s immortality. I thought it was one of the better pieces of writing of the whole show. He feared eternal damnation, asked for forgiveness, could not get it, and asked to never die. Why did Jacob do it? Because Richard’s philosophical questions made Jacob realize that he needed a Moses. I think the producers have admitted to lying about the normal resolution to keep the middle aged housewives from bailing. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170/80 "2010-04-07T16:18:49Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I cannot think of any Pre-77 changes. I’m not sure we have a clear answer on this. The thing that’s weird about it is if the timelines diverge at the point when the bomb goes off, then in the ATL you have Jack and everyone in 1977 to set off the bomb, but not on the island in 2004/2007 to go back in time to set off the bomb. In any case, I don’t think we’ve seen anything that has explicitly changed at a point prior to the bomb. Jack had his appendix taken out as a child in the ATL, but we don’t know exactly when that was. Ben and his dad left the island, ditto. Also, an interesting note - if the timelines diverge when the bomb goes off, then ATL Eloise has Daniel’s journal from the original timeline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-11-happily-ever-after/535170.md?page=5)