# LOST 6.12 "Everybody Loves Hugo" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966 "2010-04-13T17:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/121 "2010-04-15T15:16:57Z")
> [@Justin\_Credible](#): > > And, I have to say, Ilana blowing herself up is one of the most monumentally stupid character decisions I’ve seen on the show. No one with any kind of ordinance training - or, hell, even common sense - would just drop a freaking bag of dynamite on the ground like it was a sack of flour. Ugh. Stupid. Cool explosion though. Seriously. Right before the explosion, I turned to my wife and said, “The way she’s slinging that satchel around, she’s going to blow herself–WHOA!” Also–anyone know if that was the actual original soundtrack from “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” that they played over the preview, or some weird remix? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/122 "2010-04-15T15:38:13Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > That “Hi, Jack” was so freaking creepy. Why single out Jack? Flocke has Locke’s memories, and seems to have picked up a _lot_ of his personality as well. Locke and Jack were frequently rivals for leadership of the Losties - no surprise that Flocke would feel some extra desire to mess with the dude. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/123 "2010-04-15T15:43:40Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > That would explain why Desmond, when asked by Ben what his son’s name was, immediately answered “Charlie.” Not necessarily - Sideways Claire referred to her unborn baby as ‘Aaron’ at one point. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/124 "2010-04-15T15:46:45Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > Also–anyone know if that was the actual original soundtrack from “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” that they played over the preview, or some weird remix? Some weird remix of the original. Definitely the original Gene Wilder reading of the lines but they added the eerie echo effect to it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/125 "2010-04-15T15:48:36Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > Not necessarily - Sideways Claire referred to her unborn baby as ‘Aaron’ at one point. Yeah, but she was surprised when she said it. She wasn’t even sure where the name came from. Desmond said Charlie with no hesitation and no surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/126 "2010-04-15T16:16:22Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > That’s how I saw it. He knows his ATL ego is doing all the work to get the Oceanic people to “remember” as part of some master plan to stop MIB. Island Desmond is just buying time with nothing to do or be afraid of. Looking at Flocke thinking “If only you knew what the other me was doing in ATL.” And, as others have pointed out, he very likely has seen the future, and he knows he’s in it. Until he his that point he’s protected by The Universe. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/127 "2010-04-15T18:41:14Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > That’s how I saw it. He knows his ATL ego is doing all the work to get the Oceanic people to “remember” as part of some master plan to stop MIB. Island Desmond is just buying time with nothing to do or be afraid of. Looking at Flocke thinking “If only you knew what the other me was doing in ATL.” Which makes me think that Desmond believes there is a possibility that Flocke could use ATL Locke’s body as a host to crossover. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Flocke has Locke’s memories, and seems to have picked up a _lot_ of his personality as well. Locke and Jack were frequently rivals for leadership of the Losties - no surprise that Flocke would feel some extra desire to mess with the dude. I was thinking the same thing. It reminded me of the end of season 4 when Jack and Locke were talking in the Orchid’s groundlevel garden and Locke was trying to talk jack into staying. A familiar bond, but at the same time, mutual contempt. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/128 "2010-04-15T19:02:36Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Which makes me think that Desmond believes there is a possibility that Flocke could use ATL Locke’s body as a host to crossover. > > I was thinking the same thing. It reminded me of the end of season 4 when Jack and Locke were talking in the Orchid’s groundlevel garden and Locke was trying to talk jack into staying. A familiar bond, but at the same time, mutual contempt. They’ve also gone the longest time without really seeing each other, expecting for Sun and Jin. They split up at the start of Season 4, and only spoke to each other briefly a few times (at the Orchard and then once off the island). ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/129 "2010-04-15T19:46:28Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Poor Desmond, downgraded from a Mercedes to a Civic. > > -Joe, Accord owner That wasn’t a Civic, that was a BMW with the badge painted over. -Shark, 3-series owner ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/130 "2010-04-15T19:52:09Z")
Is island Desmond really Desmond? think about it. we think that somehow Des transported to ALT life and life as a souless automaton without Penny and came back determined to stop it with Widmore. But does electomagnetic Des indicate in any way that he knows about the ALT timestream? He asks Widmore to help him up (weird) and Zoe Sarah Fey can figure out why he wants to help and Des says something cryptic (at work so does anyone remember what he said). Then Zombie Iraqi comes up and says come on Des and so the sot of a Scot says OK. (Wait, didn’t he want to help Widmore save the world? OTOH, that was probably not the best time to tell Sayiid “no!”) Now he’s walking with Schmoky McShmokerson and hes like, “Why be afraid man?” like he just smoked a gigantic doob and is listening to Jefferson Airplane the the crazy smoke guy has to harsh his mellow by throwin’ him down a well, man. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/131 "2010-04-15T19:58:29Z")
So… Is Desmond now fully aware of both timelines? It seems to me that he is - he’s the unique one with the ability to shift between timelines, but until Widmore put him in the timeline transporter, he was only vaguely aware of the existence of both. But now he seems to be the one being that has fully intact memories of all events in both timelines, and apparently has some intuitive understanding of how everything relates together. He wasn’t afraid because he knows he’s a candidate and can’t be killed by Flocke, and he also knows what Flocke’s plan is. I wonder if he can mentally shift between the Desmonds in both timelines? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/132 "2010-04-15T20:07:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I wonder if he can mentally shift between the Desmonds in both timelines? Good question. It seemed he needed some type of magentic surge to get him into ATL. I don’t remember how he got back. But when he did come back the time passed was different. i.e. he had spent many hours (days?) in ATL but when he came to in the magentic “box” they said he was only out a few minutes. So does he need to be unconcious on the island in order to get stuff done in ATL? Maybe Flocke knocking him down the well knocked him unconcious near the magentic donkey wheel and that sent him to ATL again? Thanks Flocke! ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/133 "2010-04-15T20:15:08Z")
From Doc Jensen’s recap on [ew.com](http://ew.com). He’s often tongue in cheek with his theories (and they change week to week). ## But this is interesting, if unlikely: **When Fake Locke asked Desmond if he knew who he was, and Desmond replied ‘‘John Locke,’’ did you get the sense that the reason that Fake Locke threw Desmond into the well was because Desmond had stumbled on his big secret — that this Fake Locke thing who’s been claiming not to be John Locke all season long really is John Locke?** Yes. I thought that thought. **So if the Man In Black really isn’t Fake Locke, then… who or where is he?** He’s in the body of Frank Lapidus. **Seriously?** ## Sure. He then has the same guess as me that Desmond is trying to kill ATL Locke to keep Island Locke from migrating. “Or maybe Desmond is just a really bad driver. He is from Scotland, you know. Maybe he’s not used to driving on the proper side of the road.” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/134 "2010-04-15T20:26:27Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > That wasn’t a Civic, that was a BMW with the badge painted over. > > -Shark, 3-series owner In that case, I can think of how someone could have saved himself a chunk of change. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/135 "2010-04-15T20:57:57Z")
I think Fake Locke was upset because Desmond did know who he is. He said it so calmly, “Of course I know who you are…” Then, pausing, he grins and says, “John Locke.” But really, I think he does know who the smoke monster is and that bothers him, especially since Desmond isn’t afraid. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/136 "2010-04-15T21:33:43Z")
John Locke is the Smoke monster. I can’t see how he could be anything else after what we saw with Jacob nd at the Temple. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/137 "2010-04-15T21:37:57Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Which makes me think that Desmond believes there is a possibility that Flocke could use ATL Locke’s body as a host to crossover. Hm. I never considered the possibility that Desmond could have been trying to kill Locke. > [@middleman](#): > > From Doc Jensen’s recap on [ew.com](http://ew.com). He’s often tongue in cheek with his theories (and they change week to week). > > ## But this is interesting, if unlikely: > > **When Fake Locke asked Desmond if he knew who he was, and Desmond replied ‘‘John Locke,’’ did you get the sense that the reason that Fake Locke threw Desmond into the well was because Desmond had stumbled on his big secret — that this Fake Locke thing who’s been claiming not to be John Locke all season long really is John Locke?** > > Yes. I thought that thought. > > **So if the Man In Black really isn’t Fake Locke, then… who or where is he?** > > He’s in the body of Frank Lapidus. > > **Seriously?** > > ## Sure. > > He then has the same guess as me that Desmond is trying to kill ATL Locke to keep Island Locke from migrating. > > “Or maybe Desmond is just a really bad driver. He is from Scotland, you know. Maybe he’s not used to driving on the proper side of the road.” Huh. That _is_ interesting. I’m trying to think if there’s any possible way that could be true. I’d love it if that was real Locke after all. He’s probably my favorite character on the show, and I hate that he died like he did. The only way I can think of to explain that is that maybe when John died, his consciousness was sent back to the island because he was unable to move on, and he became one of those whispers. I wonder if that can happen to someone who dies off-island. Michael was technically off the island, but still in its vicinity. Hm, what about Christian Shepherd? All the times we’ve seen him on the island, if he is a ghost and not the Man in Black, then I think that lends serious credibility to this theory. But, that would mean that Locke somehow took over the smoke monster’s “body” instead of the other way around. That seems kinda out there, even for this show. They’d have to explain that by saying that John had some kind of special connection to the island that allowed him to do that. When the Ajira flight crashed, was there ever a time that we didn’t see Frank for a few seconds? Say, time enough between the crash and seeing him again for “Esau” to inhabit his body? That’s the only way I can see the second part of that being true. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/138 "2010-04-15T21:44:27Z")
Why Frank Lapidus, and not someone else? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/139 "2010-04-15T21:49:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why Frank Lapidus, and not someone else? Probably because he hasn’t really done anything else of note lately. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966/140 "2010-04-15T22:06:56Z")
Frank was with Illana and gang while they were running away from the Smoke Monster in the temple. And everything that Locke said to Jacob and Richard kinda invalidates that theory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-12-everybody-loves-hugo/535966.md?page=8)