# LOST 6.13 "The Last Recruit" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774 "2010-04-20T18:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/121 "2010-04-27T23:30:14Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Another question which I think shows that they didn’t think things through: if the smoke monster is antagonistic to Jacob (no matter how few Others knew this,) where did Ben come by the belief that he had to be “judged” by the monster? Ben never spoke to Jacob. It’s not much of a leap to reason that he believed the smoke monster was an agent of Jacob. Especially after referring to it as a “security system” and summoning it from the basement of his house. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/122 "2010-04-28T00:54:06Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Ben never spoke to Jacob. It’s not much of a leap to reason that he believed the smoke monster was an agent of Jacob. Especially after referring to it as a “security system” and summoning it from the basement of his house. The idea that he had to specifically summon it to be “judged” by it for breaking the “rules” suggests a pretty specific mythos he believed in. He would have had to get that idea from somewhere, not just dream it up. And I thought Danielle was the only person who had called the monster a “security system”–when did Ben? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/123 "2010-04-28T00:58:43Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > The idea that he had to specifically summon it to be “judged” by it for breaking the “rules” suggests a pretty specific mythos he believed in. He would have had to get that idea from somewhere, not just dream it up. No, I mean when he summoned it to fight the mercenaries. > [@Arcite](#): > > And I thought Danielle was the only person who had called the monster a “security system”–when did Ben? Hmm. You may be right. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/124 "2010-04-28T01:08:55Z")
Why was Smokey summon-able? Why did smoky give people bad dreams in later seasons but just throw them into trees in early seasons? ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/125 "2010-04-28T02:04:52Z")
Was there annything good in the text explaintion of tonight’s rerun (I only cought the end) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/126 "2010-04-28T02:36:54Z")
The only notable thing I caught was the confirmation that it _was_ MIB impersonating Richard’s wife inside the Black Rock, not her actual ghost. (Although this would mean MIB can be two places at once, since he was also skulking around above deck in smoke form at the time.) So the only time her actual ghost appeared was at the end, and only to Hurley. Also, for some reason I never realized this before, but apparently MIB having Isabella’s necklace was what allowed him to take her form. So he doesn’t need an actual corpse to look like someone – a personal possession will do. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/127 "2010-04-28T03:19:15Z")
The question upthread was about the numbers and the Vanzetti equation and the end of humankind. I have no problem believing the candidates as the personification of the numbers because it seems like no matter what happens the candidates are there to stop MiB similar to how as much as Dharma tried to change the numbers they never changed. And if the candidates fail and Schmoky McShmokerson gets free … ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/128 "2010-04-28T16:49:45Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > The only notable thing I caught was the confirmation that it _was_ MIB impersonating Richard’s wife inside the Black Rock, not her actual ghost. As I understand it, the added text on the reruns is not done by the producers themselves, so they should be taken with at least a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/129 "2010-04-28T17:32:59Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > Also, for some reason I never realized this before, but apparently MIB having Isabella’s necklace was what allowed him to take her form. So he doesn’t need an actual corpse to look like someone – a personal possession will do. Someone upthread mentioned the possibility that the MIB needs the DNA of a dead person in order to take their form. I like that idea coupled with Isabella’s DNA being on th necklace over just needing a personal possession. Of course, most personal possessions would probably have a persons DNA on it, but I wonder if it has to be something they have with them when their dead. What did the MIB use in order to appear as Ben’s mom, then? Ben? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/130 "2010-04-28T18:05:14Z")
> [@Skott](#): > > Someone upthread mentioned the possibility that the MIB needs the DNA of a dead person in order to take their form. I like that idea coupled with Isabella’s DNA being on th necklace over just needing a personal possession. Of course, most personal possessions would probably have a persons DNA on it, but I wonder if it has to be something they have with them when their dead. If Schmoky came to me as Isabella, he’d have a lot of DNA 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/131 "2010-04-28T18:40:57Z")
One thing that just occurred to me. Most of the main characters have issues with their father. Several killed their own father, or in Locke’s case, arranged for someone else to do it. Smokey has got to be Jacob’s son. Sorry if this speculation has already been made. I just know that I’ve not seen it before. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/132 "2010-04-28T23:37:43Z")
A couple of things of note that I picked up on from the “pop up” episode: 1.) the text explained that “the first rule of the island” is that only those who are invited were allowed into the foot of the statue. The text made it a point to say something like: “Richard tried to warn Braum and his men, but they didn’t listen and died by the smoke monster.” 2.) the white stone that Jacob hands to Richard to give to MiB is Jacob’s way of letting him know that he won this “round.” The text made it a point to mention that there was also a white stone on the scale in the cave of all the candidates names. Don’t know what it means, but there ya go… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/133 "2010-04-29T12:35:44Z")
Maybe Adam and Eve are Jacob and MIB. 1. Can you even TELL if a skeleton is male or female? Ok–more accurately, can you tell (at a glance) in the middle of a jungle (in a cave) if a skeleton is female? 2. If it is a woman, MIB can change his shape, maybe he becomes Claire or something. 3. If those two meddling assholes both die, we get a happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/134 "2010-04-29T14:34:32Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Maybe Adam and Eve are Jacob and MIB. Jack estimated that Adam and Eve had been dead for around 50 years. The events of “Jughead” took place in 1954, maybe something else happened around then too? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/135 "2010-04-29T14:40:42Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Maybe Adam and Eve are Jacob and MIB. > > 1. Can you even TELL if a skeleton is male or female? Ok–more accurately, can you tell (at a glance) in the middle of a jungle (in a cave) if a skeleton is female? I’m sure a doctor could. The pelvis/hip bones are distinctly different for someone who has studied anatomy. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/136 "2010-04-29T16:23:51Z")
Winston Bongo: > [@](#): > > So he doesn’t need an actual corpse to look like someone – a personal possession will do. Interesting. I wonder if this could be connected somehow to the fact that Eloise insisted that Locke’s corpse needed to be given something belonging to Christian Shepherd before heading back to the island? I don’t know how exactly (because as far as I can tell, Smokey never appeared as Christian after the crash of Ajira 316 - Christian appeared to Sun and Frank in one of the Dharma buildings, but at that time, Smokey was already using Locke’s form) but maybe that will be revealed in the few remaining episodes. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/137 "2010-04-29T16:43:45Z")
That’s an excellent point. I always hated the emphasis on those shoes because it just seeme so incredibly stupid. Your interpretation makes that bit of seeming stupidity palatable. I don’t think he’s appeared as Christian since the Ajira crash, and we’ve been told (I think by the chick who blew up with the dynamite a couple weeks ago) that he’s locked into the Locke form, unable to change to a different appearance. That kind of undermines the whole shoe hypothesis, but I still like it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/138 "2010-04-29T17:06:33Z")
I might be misremembering, but I thought she said that MIB got locked when Jacob was killed. So any time between the Ajira crash and Jacob’s death MIB could have appeared as Christian. Actually thinking about it now, we saw MIB appear as Alex when Ben got “judged”, and that was after the Ajira crash. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/139 "2010-04-29T17:18:10Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I might be misremembering, but I thought she said that MIB got locked when Jacob was killed. So any time between the Ajira crash and Jacob’s death MIB could have appeared as Christian. > > Actually thinking about it now, we saw MIB appear as Alex when Ben got “judged”, and that was after the Ajira crash. The only think she said was that “He’s stuck as Locke now” but didn’t give a reason why. The only real major events (that she knew of) that happened after Alex’s appearance was Jacob’s death and the burning of the cabin. ---
**Author:** ![ChuckForbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@ChuckForbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckForbin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774/140 "2010-04-29T20:33:05Z")
One thing I found interesting in the second viewing of Ab Aeterno the other night : Near the end, when Richard was talking to Isabella, he said something like “I wish we could be together”. Then Isabella said “_We are already together_”. That is sticking with me somehow. Almost like Isabella is maybe alive with Richard in a sideways world (yeah the timing doesn’t work I agree), but she was noticeably wearing modern day clothes. Also kind of like when Juliet said “it worked” and “lets have coffee”. The two worlds are linked together, or leaking into each other, or something. I have a headache. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-13-the-last-recruit/536774.md?page=8)