# LOST 6.14 "The Candidate" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306 "2010-05-04T17:59:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/141 "2010-05-06T13:23:51Z")
Like others, I was annoyed rather than saddened by Sun and Jin dying. I kept waiting for Sun to invoke her daughter to get Jin out of there, and honestly the only reason I can think why she didn’t is It’s In The Script. They either wanted to mine maximum pathos out their end-of-series ability to off characters, or they wanted potential candidates pared down (and to dispose of the “which Kwon?” question). As for the plane/sub thing - it seems obvious to me that Flocke doesn’t need a physical conveyance to get off the island. He needs Jacob and all candidates to be dead, then he can get off the island by supernatural means. He just needed the idea of getting off island to manipulate them into killing themselves. In fact, when they came upon the plane, I fully expected Lapidus assess the plane and say, “Yeah, we’re not going anywhere in that.” I feel bad for Sawyer - he made the wrong choice, and some lovely people died because of it. But it wasn’t really negligent or anything - he’s just still functioning on rationality instead of faith in the island, which is forgivable. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/142 "2010-05-06T13:34:24Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Like others, I was annoyed rather than saddened by Sun and Jin dying. I kept waiting for Sun to invoke her daughter to get Jin out of there, and honestly the only reason I can think why she didn’t is It’s In The Script. They either wanted to mine maximum pathos out their end-of-series ability to off characters, or they wanted potential candidates pared down (and to dispose of the “which Kwon?” question). My theories: 1. The script was written by male with no kids. “Oh, yeah - forgot about the baby.” 2. It’s sloppy writing because whoever wrote it “knows” that “live for the baby” is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the “real” timeline and that the kid will no longer exist. 3. They (the screenwriters) have to get to a place in a certain amount of time. Having Jin alive makes things more complicated and screws up their plotting. So they purposely didn’t write the line, hoping that nobody (Ha!) would catch it. 4. The screenwriters are like “What are we going to do with the Kwon’s?” “I’m tired of jiggling all these characters and time is running out - let’s kill them.” “What about the baby?” “Fuck it. We’ve only got 5 more hours of show left, who gives a crap? Me, I just want to be done so I can start collecting my royalties.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/143 "2010-05-06T13:38:03Z")
I’m betting it’s a combination of #2 & #4. It isn’t #1, because they were seen talking about the kid earlier in the episode. They also know how anal the viewers are, so it can’t be #3. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/144 "2010-05-06T13:44:45Z")
Thanks to many years of flying, whenever I’m in these _Lost_ threads I keep on reading about the “Atlanta Timeline.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/145 "2010-05-06T14:07:11Z")
If Jin had left Sun, would he have even had much of a chance to make it to the surface? The sub was sinking and Jack took the last oxygen tank. Maybe Jin figured that if he was going to likely die anyway, he may as well die with his wife. Plus, he probably didn’t think his odds of surviving on the island were that great, and the odds of leaving it to actually see his daughter again weren’t even worth thinking about. If I’m Jin, weighing all of those factors - I’d probably stay too. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/146 "2010-05-06T14:08:18Z")
Also, I suppose Sun should have mentioned their daughter and all that - but did she say much while she was trapped? If I remember right she seemed pretty much in shock and didn’t say much of anything except “Go.” ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/147 "2010-05-06T15:06:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My theories: > > 1. The script was written by male with no kids. “Oh, yeah - forgot about the baby.” > 2. It’s sloppy writing because whoever wrote it “knows” that “live for the baby” is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the “real” timeline and that the kid will no longer exist. > 3. They (the screenwriters) have to get to a place in a certain amount of time. Having Jin alive makes things more complicated and screws up their plotting. So they purposely didn’t write the line, hoping that nobody (Ha!) would catch it. > 4. The screenwriters are like “What are we going to do with the Kwon’s?” “I’m tired of jiggling all these characters and time is running out - let’s kill them.” “What about the baby?” “Fuck it. We’ve only got 5 more hours of show left, who gives a crap? Me, I just want to be done so I can start collecting my royalties.” Poor justification (I think Sun should also have invoked the kid) is that Jin knew and decided to stay with his wife anyway. He just recently found out he even had a daughter and had only seen her picture. On the other hand, he had finally been reuinited with his wife, the woman he’d loved and sacrificed everything for and he decided he would not leave her ever again. I could see that overriding paternal instincts. [It reminds me a bit of a tragic case where a car crashed into a lake](http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-4709570/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdHVmZi5jby5uei9uYXRpb25hbC8zMTA3NzAzL0ZhdGhlcnMtY2hvaWNlLXNhdmUtc29uLW9yLXdpZmU=) and a man could save only one other person in the car: his wife or his son. He saved his wife. Again, not saying it was well thought out or executed by the writers, but it’s not unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/148 "2010-05-06T16:17:18Z")
> [@ElectricZ](#): > > [It reminds me a bit of a tragic case where a car crashed into a lake](http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-4709570/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdHVmZi5jby5uei9uYXRpb25hbC8zMTA3NzAzL0ZhdGhlcnMtY2hvaWNlLXNhdmUtc29uLW9yLXdpZmU=) and a man could save only one other person in the car: his wife or his son. He saved his wife. > > Again, not saying it was well thought out or executed by the writers, but it’s not unrealistic. I guess they hadn’t thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I’d choose the kid without any hesitation and that she’d damned well better do the same were the situation reversed. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/149 "2010-05-06T17:02:08Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I guess they hadn’t thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I’d choose the kid without any hesitation and that she’d damned well better do the same were the situation reversed. > > -Joe All this makes for entertaining film and literature, but IRL the cold, hard answer is you _ALWAYS_ rescue people in increasing order of difficulty. Going for the tough ones first almost guarantees two dead victims and probably the rescuer(s). Back to _Lost_. My theory is that everyone on the island dies in order to fix the alternate reality paradox. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/150 "2010-05-06T18:01:00Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I guess they hadn’t thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I’d choose the kid without any hesitation and that she’d damned well better do the same were the situation reversed. > > -Joe I know we are on a minor tangent, but the man in the link was in a very different situation than “choose between your wife and son” or (akin to Jin and Sun) “choose between your wife in the present of the possibility of being a father to your daughter in the future.” If I read correctly, he ultimately chose to save his wife rather than letting both his wife and son die… his wife was in front of him screaming and struggling, and his son was trapped… he DID choose the son, but could not get to him, and then opted to save his wife… (“I tried to get down and get him but I couldn’t, it was just too deep. And Vanessa was going under”) As for Jin, I was shocked he opted to stay with Sun… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/151 "2010-05-06T18:46:03Z")
I wasn’t surprised at all. He doesn’t know Ji Yeon at all, and after the sub sank it’s very unlikely that they’ll be getting off the island at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/152 "2010-05-06T20:34:16Z")
> [@PaperBlob](#): > > Why was the pregnancy/death problem such a big deal for the Others? They had the ability to leave the island via submarine, so why couldn’t they just take the moms-to-be off-island until they gave birth? I can understand wanting to solve the problem medically just because, but why risk the moms’ lives if you don’t have to? Or am I missing/forgetting something here? > > ETA: I see from Dogzilla’s post that Juliet thought of this. Was it ever explained why taking moms off the island wasn’t an option? It worked out OK for Sun. It’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/153 "2010-05-07T16:22:04Z")
This was supposed to be a tearjerker I assume, but I can’t say I was moved at all. It’s just… it’s hard to even care about the characters at this point since they’re just arbitrarily jerked around to serve the plot, and besides that, there’s not much of a sense of finality to it. We could use the magical goobledegook next episode and woop everyone is alive again. Maybe their alternate time line selves are alive and happy. Dunno, just… after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I’m pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/154 "2010-05-07T16:26:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Dunno, just… after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I’m pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly? Yes. During the scene of Sun and Jin drifting lifelessly away from each other, I thought, “Huh, I guess this is supposed to be really emotional.” I honestly didn’t give a crap. It was just so ridiculously manipulative, with the characters spending the whole season trying to find each other, and then finding each other, and then this. Although, I’ve certainly watched TV before where I knew full well that the show producers were manipulating us into feeling emotional, and still felt some emotion for characters that I cared about, so the fact that it didn’t happen this time I think says something about how little I am invested in the characters on Lost these days. There’s been too much jerking our chains with plot twists that go nowhere, too many character about-faces, and just some really poor storytelling, IMO. The closer we get to the end of the season, the more irritable I get. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/155 "2010-05-07T16:37:28Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Dunno, just… after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I’m pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly? Yes. And to give you a gauge of my emotional manipulability by hackneyed, predictable fiction, I cried my eyes out at _Avatar_. So this had to be pretty bad not to suck me in. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/156 "2010-05-07T16:39:55Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are. > > MIB is Crazy Claire’s Aaron, all growed up. Hence the “Don’t let him be raised by another” prophecy. > > Jacob is Alt-Claire’s Aaron–raised by her. Which would also explain why his name is name is never mentioned in the show. \ What’s your name? Schmoky McSchmokerson? \ It’s Jacob. \ Wait a minute. I thought the other guy was Jacob. \ He is. \ I’m confused. \ He is me and I am him. \ And we are all together (hums “I am the Walrus”) \ \>.\< ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/157 "2010-05-07T16:56:27Z")
> [@BrianJ4](#): > > I’m guessing that in the Alt timeline, Smokey is actually loose, since in that timeline all the candidates and everyone on the island is at the bottom of the ocean. Huh? All the candidates are off living normal lives. jack is still doctoring, Sayid is still killing, Jin and Sun are still boinking, etc… Unles you mean all the candidates that existed before them that were already on the island pre-explosion. But what if the explosion took out Smokey/MiB too? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/158 "2010-05-07T17:13:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 1. It’s sloppy writing because whoever wrote it “knows” that “live for the baby” is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the “real” timeline and that the kid will no longer exist. The kid exists in the ALT timeline; it just hasn’t been born yet. (Remember the ALT timeline is 3 years behind.) > [@SenorBeef](#): > > This was supposed to be a tearjerker I assume, but I can’t say I was moved at all. It’s just… it’s hard to even care about the characters at this point since they’re just arbitrarily jerked around to serve the plot, and besides that, there’s not much of a sense of finality to it. We could use the magical goobledegook next episode and woop everyone is alive again. Maybe their alternate time line selves are alive and happy. > > Dunno, just… after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I’m pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly? My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/159 "2010-05-07T17:36:28Z")
I agree with **SenorBeef** as well. Seeing the way they died, especially with no mention of the child, irritated me quite a bit. I turned to my wife and said “When I rewatch this, now I know I can fast-forward through all the off-island Sun/Jin stuff.” Though whether their ATL-selves are happy - wasn’t the last time we saw Sun was when she was shot and being taken into the emergency room? However, I still think the worst resolution of the problem that occurs when a childs existence becomes problematic to the show was the _X-Files_ where, to protect her son from an international (nay, _interstellar_) conspiracy, Scully dumps him on some unsuspecting farmer in the middle of GodKnowsWhere, Montana. :rolleyes: X 100 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306/160 "2010-05-07T17:57:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Though whether their ATL-selves are happy - wasn’t the last time we saw Sun was when she was shot and being taken into the emergency room? The chronologically latest time we saw them in the ALT timeline, Sun woke up from surgery with Jin by her side, who told her that both she and the baby were fine and they could now start their life together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-14-the-candidate/538306.md?page=9)