# LOST 6.15 "Across the Sea" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072 "2010-05-11T17:45:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/101 "2010-05-12T07:02:07Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > So, with 10 minutes left in the show, I’m \*still \*sympathetic to MIB, and thinking Jacob is . . . kind of a wuss. We’re supposed to be. I’m annoyed. I thought it was a good hour of TV in its own right. I thought it was a failure as a part of the series. They gave us too little and far too late in the series. This should have been done a year ago, if not two. Waiting until this point for some of these answers was silly and petty and didn’t serve to up the drama, just to irritate me. I’m also absolutely positive that they’re not going to be able to wrap this up in the amount of time they have left. The episode was just symbolic of bad plotting & pacing decisions that the writer/producers have made. Oh, and name the fucking twin. “I only thought of one name” (paraphrased) was a stupid line. The writers continuing to not name him because his mother didn’t is inane. It doesn’t come across as deep or metaphorical or whatever. It comes across as pretentious and obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/102 "2010-05-12T07:24:38Z")
Motivations!!! That’s what is missing from this episode. I’m completely willing to tolerate the McGuffin of the Great White Light and the handwaving magical “specialness” that the Mommie Dearest imbued the Twins with if they framed them with comprehensible and concrete motivations. Why is Mommie Dearest so determined to protect the White Light? Why does MiB so desperately want to get off the island? Why did the Ghost of the Real Mom choose to reveal itself to Esau and not to Jacob? Why is Jacob so willing to side with mom while Esau is not? Why did Mommie Dearest choose to make the Twins unable to kill each other? Either spell out what the magical stuff is and how it works or spell out why the characters regard it the way the do. Pick one. This episode picked neither. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/103 "2010-05-12T07:27:34Z")
Wow. I honestly don’t understand all the hate for this episode. I thought it was really well done and it kept me engaged, interested, and on the edge of my seat the whole time. The only thing I didn’t like was the flashback to season one episodes… well, okay, that and they still feel it necessary to keep the MiB’s name a mystery. So the answers weren’t the ones you were looking for, therefore they’re stupid? It doesn’t sound like any explanation is going to be good enough for some people. Truth is, when something mysteriously impossible happens in fictional plot, there are only a few possible explanations: Magic, aliens, supernatural beings, technology so advanced it practically is magic, a conspiracy, or “It was all just a dream!”. So which one would you have chosen? I don’t think the “Source” is magic… but does it really matter if it is or not? All of the above explanations are a type of magic (save maybe the conspiracy). If some alien technology landed on Earth and was programmed to give powers to people to protect it, from the point of view of Jacob, his brother, and his mother, _there is no difference_. And from our point of view, it’s just a dress-up version of “It’s magic!” anyway. (My personal theory deals with mirror matter, how it’s a major component of what might be called a “soul”, making the Island is the souce of all souls and the place they return to… with a dose of how the MiB “break the bottle” plan to escape would diffuse all the power of the mirror matter and prevent new souls from being made.) As to the mother, at first I was a little annoyed that a new character was introduced, but then I realized that this… process… is something that’s been going on for a long time. Someone comes to the Island, becomes its protector, and selects another, and dies. So what do I care about who the mother is, what her backstory is, or anything? I only care about her effect on Jacob and MiB. And her effect on Jacob was pretty obvious: In trying to keep him from knowing what evil was, he stayed ignorant. Sounds a lot like the MiB ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge and Jacob didn’t. And why weren’t some things answered? Pretty obvious: There’s going to be another transfer of power soon… so that’s when _that_ information will be revealed. It would be a pretty boring climax if all we saw was the process that we found out about in this episode. Of course, if the information isn’t revealed, then I’ll be mad 😃 Some other thoughts: [ul][li]The Source isn’t what Locke saw: You can hear the sound of the Smoke Monster when he’s confronted by it and I’m pretty sure the Temple was built over the Source anyway.[/li][li]The language: My wife speaks Spanish (and I understand it okay) and we could understand what they were saying without subtitles. It sounded almost, but not quite, like Spanish. My guess, therefore, is Portuguese.[/li][li]Both my wife and I were wondering if the mother was a black smoke monster, based on the havoc she created at the camp and that she knew what would happen to people who walked into the Source. And why she was happy to die. [/li][li]The fact that the Source can rip a soul from its body while still allowing it to have a physical presence is what makes Desmond so special: His body and soul can’t be separated by huge doeses of electromagnetic energy.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/104 "2010-05-12T07:35:27Z")
> [@Skott](#): > > So the answers weren’t the ones you were looking for, therefore they’re Answers that beg more questions aren’t really answers at all. ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/105 "2010-05-12T07:37:00Z")
My half-baked theory: [this semi-canon book](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bad_twin) might suggest that the show-runners had communicated some idea where things were headed from the start to the ghostwriter. Obviously, I’m a man of faith in terms of waiting to judge how the show is going until after the finale. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/106 "2010-05-12T07:54:28Z")
Here’s a few random questions. Was Mommie Dearest able to draw the pregnant woman to the island intentionally, in the same way the Jacob is able to bring Richard and the Losties to the island? Or was that just happenstance? If Mommie Dearest did lure the pregnant woman to the island was it a surprise to her that there were twins? Seemed like it, but the rest of the episode certainly seemed like she had a grand plan for the two of them. Why did MD decide that Esau was the chosen one at first? Why was he special? Esau seemed to have an innate ability to understand things, as noted in his knowing how to the play the game without instructions. Does this imply that he’s special in that he can “know” things magically or that he’s just manipulative enough to get Jacob playing his version of Calvinball? Did Jacob violate the rules when he “killed” Esau by shoving him into the White Light? Why would Esau be allowed to kill MD? When do the rules protecting candidates and chosen ones apply? Were the Shipwrecked folks really truly evil? Is that simply Esau seeing the evil in everyone? Did they become evil because Esau was among them? Were they lured to the island because they were evil? Are they just normal people and Esau sees them as evil simply because of his Blue Lagoon upbringing? How did MD collapse the hole and wipe out the Shipwreckies? Does she have special powers? Does she have Smoke monster powers too or what? Does Esau go back and rebuild the donkey wheel at a later date with help from a new batch of people lured to the island? Did he just dig out the original one and finish it? In Season one in “House of the Rising Sun” when Jack, Kate and Locke discover the cave we see that the skeletons of Adam and Eve are in different tombs. Here they show Jacob putting them together in one. Simple continuity error or does this imply that somehow Esau’s body is moved? What’s special about that Jesus Juice that Jacob drank? Earlier this season we saw Jacob give some to Richard, presumably that’s what gave him his immortality. MD says that Esau and Jacob were immortal before that though, did MD giving Jacob the wine do something different than when Richard got it? Was Esau breaking the wine bottle on the log significant beyond symbolism? Can Jacob make more magic wine whenever he wants? ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/107 "2010-05-12T08:10:53Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Answers that beg more questions aren’t really answers at all. I would dispute that: Every answer begs a question until you reach one that can’t be answered. You can start with “What is the ocean made of?” and get the answer “water”… and you can keep asking “What’s x made of?” until you either get to a point where you say “Nothing” or “Nobody knows.” You just have to choose what level you’re satisfied with. I’m find with knowing about atoms. Other people will apparently only be satisfied if String Theory is satisfactorily proven. ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/108 "2010-05-12T08:45:03Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Why would Esau be allowed to kill MD? When do the rules protecting candidates and chosen ones apply? I would imagine that MD was no longer a candidate/chosen one once she passed her duty to Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/109 "2010-05-12T10:28:03Z")
I knew this one was going to be a winner when the pregnant woman began asking questions and the crazy lady admonished her. The writers of this show are not very subtle about their contempt for their audience, at least the ones who aren’t satisfied with endless claims of “it’s complicated”. Given the nature of the island, and the role Jacob and MIB play in that, this episode should’ve probably been one of the most enlightening of the series. We learned a bit, but with it comes the implication that the mystery of the island, the primary driver for the entire series, is going to be brushed away as a mcguffin. Way to take Jacob from being mysterious wise man to whiny douchebag who doesn’t know wtf is going on but just goes with it anyway. I guess maybe he wised up over hundreds+ years of sitting around thinking, but if they don’t show or tell us what he’s learned, it’s not really meaningful to us. Really there’s something of a theme on this show. MIB is the curious of the two brothers, the one who wants to figure out what’s going on and see the world and he’s the evil one, whereas Jacob is willing to be all pouty and basically accept “it’s complicated” as an answer all his life and he’s the good guy. Arzt (IIRC, it was years ago) commented on how the characters should be more curious and communicate more and figure stuff out, and he blew up. Hell, even tonight the mother of the twins asks some reasonable questions and gets a rock to the head for efforts. So, take it to heart: If you’re one of those curious people who wants to know wtf is going on, the writers are going to hit you in the head with a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/110 "2010-05-12T10:30:45Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > We’re supposed to be. > I’m annoyed. I thought it was a good hour of TV in its own right. I thought it was a failure as a part of the series. They gave us too little and far too late in the series. This should have been done a year ago, if not two. Waiting until this point for some of these answers was silly and petty and didn’t serve to up the drama, just to irritate me. I agree with this 100%. At the very least, this should have come about 10 episodes back…certainly before the Richard ep. My biggest question was “_HOW_ did mommy-dearest make it so they can’t hurt (kill?) one another?” Those are powers we’ve never seen used by anyone before. That said, there were some interesting hints/parallels. 1. The “rules” governing Ben & Whidmore’s game—they were both leaders of Jacob’s Others–do the rules about direct attacks against each other apply to them too? If so, why did Whidmore break the rules when his pawn killed Ben’s adopted daughter? 2. The parallel between MIB’s Flintstone-era Others and Dharma: came to the island, started to dig into the source/electromagnetic anomaly, got massacred. Jacob did really come across as looking like a yutz. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/111 "2010-05-12T10:53:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > My biggest question was “_HOW_ did mommy-dearest make it so they can’t hurt (kill?) one another?” Those are powers we’ve never seen used by anyone before. I think we have seen that before, when Jacob made Richard immortal. I think the guardian of the cave will always have the power to make it so that someone can’t die. The most intriguing question I’m left with is this. What does it mean that the sideways universe is a place where the well of souls (or whatever) has sunk? ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/112 "2010-05-12T11:44:31Z")
Gah. ABC doesn’t have the full episode up yet for some reason. Or I’m having technical difficulties for the very first week. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/113 "2010-05-12T12:19:54Z")
Here’s the thing. If you’ve had a wise, mysterious, evidently magical person strolling about, referring vaguely to the specialness of the island and the need to protect it, you aren’t providing any actual answers or enlightenment by showing us the prior wise, mysterious, evidently magical person who spoke to \*him \*vaguely about the specialness of the island and the need to protect it! And don’t give me any crap about it being magic, and therefore we just have to accept everything they throw out there. There are myriad stories of magical beings and events that set up a coherent set of “brute facts” and then work within them. There is a huge difference between accepting that the gods simply can’t break a vow sworn on the Styx, and putting up with random, ad hoc jerry rigs and constant moving of the goal posts. However, I do think they implied something of an answer to why MIB can’t be allowed to leave the island. Let’s say we just accept that the golden light somehow\* needs to be on the island and protected, or all humanity will suffer/die. It seems to me that when MIB went into the cave, he got melded with the power in there, with the result being the smoke monster. If the monster leaves the island, the power won’t be on the island and protected anymore, and everything goes to shit. \*honestly, I think everyone would be happier with “this is where human souls come from” or “this is the source of the laws of physics that keep the world turning” or **something** , rather than another iteration of “it’s complicated, just trust me.” It’s like the writers are so scared of giving us a clunker of an explanation, they’re just weaseling out and giving no explanation. Which is clunkier than anything. ---
**Author:** ![equinoxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/22d042/32.png) [@equinoxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/equinoxi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/114 "2010-05-12T12:22:18Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > I think a lot of folks in this thread are so focused on the technical answers that they have missed the rather obvious allegory here, one that has been hinted at throughout the series. > > Jacob and the MiB represent the two reactions of the human condition regarding ‘divine providence’–and I use that term for the ineffable idea of a higher power that rises to the surface when a person confronts the unknown, regardless of whether or not God is involved. Primitive man was confronted with a wide range of phenomena he would consider inexplicable, which implies he had a greater capacity for understanding and accomodating this reaction. As our intellect evolved, more and more phenomena yielded to science, and that primitive sense of the world changed. But there are still (and probably always will be) profound mysteries just exceeding our grasp–be they the origins of the universe or the source of a beautiful light around the bend of a cave. Primitive man was wise enough to avoid testing divinity–who wants to chance pissing off the gods?–but modern man finds the potential advantages too enticing to avoid risky temptation. Or you can turn this around: Primitive man’s fear of shadows left him with a dreary, wothless existence, while modern man’s courage to stare into the abyss have wrought wonders. > > MiB represents man’s inquisitive self, which doesn’t react well to the arbitrary imposition of dicta from on high. How else can you make sense of MiB’s explanation of the wheel–forges after 30 years of searching for “another way” to get to a light he saw naturally in childhood: “We’re going to make an opening–one much bigger than this one. And them I’m going to attach that wheel to a system we’re building, a system that channels the water, and the light. And then I’m going to turn it. And when I do, I’ll finally be able to leave this place.” (“leave this place” = throw off the last vestige of primitive man; yes, he really “doesn’t belong here”). > > Here’s the thing this episode proved: Neither Jacob nor Esau/MiB have any power over the island. _Neither_ of them is its master; they are as baffled by mystery as all the other castaways. It is only their primitive vs. modern reaction to it that sets them apart–a contrast paralleled in the Jack/Locke split between “man of science, man of faith”. And as many commentors have noted, this interpretation makes Esau a much more sympathetic character (since we’re closer to the modern worldview), and Jacob (devoted as he is to an unquestioned worldview) something of a stooge. > > Don’t get me wrong–I have had problems with quite a large part of this season (I still don’t completely understand the relevance of the “flash sideways”, and still think they owe us a better explanation of Flocke’s motives), but for me the episode crystallized a theme that has run thru the series since the beginning, and did it relatively well. I also agree this, Jacob and his brother have nothing to do with good vs evil but more to do with Faith vs Science and both are capable of doing good and evil. After all Jacob did ordered Ben to kill the dharma group just like what his mum did to his brother’s people. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/115 "2010-05-12T12:25:23Z")
I _think_ I’ll be happy if the show answers the following questions: 1. What is the light? 2. How was the line of light-guardians originally established? 3. What is the ultimate, actual fate of each of the Losties w.r.t. the island and it’s effects on their lives? Would that satisfy everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/116 "2010-05-12T12:35:09Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > Absolutely loved the episode. absolutely loved that it pissed the people off who are pissed, for all the reasons they say they’re pissed. Absolutely Brilliant. I’m confused about why other people’s unhappiness could tickle someone so much. That’s kind of pathetic. Maybe _you’re_ the smoke monster. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/117 "2010-05-12T12:56:04Z")
I just watched it again, and I will say that my posts before may have been a bit harsh considering my complete adoration of the series over the years. Yes, it was a well done episode. Yes, they attempted to answer some questions. But I guess what bothers me the most about it is after this episode, I have to wonder what everything else was about. The numbers, the anomoly, Dharma, all of it. If it all could’ve been explained by magic or spiritualism or whatever, they could’ve done it alot earlier, and elaborated on the mythos. I’m really hoping that this all gets tied up with a big red bow when the credits roll after the finale, but I can’t get my brain around how that can happen with the amount of time left, and my fear is it’s going to feel…hacked together. And I will admit that when I saw the light in the cave, the first thing I thought of was Pulp Fiction. But I accepted the answer in PF because it was left up to the viewer to come up with their own conclusion as to what it was. They never said, “in the briefcase is Marsellus’ soul,” or whatever. It could’ve been diamonds, gold bars, a nuclear weapon, or something else. But the briefcase was a bit part in the larger story there. In Lost, it seems like (and I could be completely wrong here) they’ve been dropping clues for six years for some explanation, and we’re going to get an answer of “it’s magic.” The cartoon Scooby-Doo was only good because they had a logical explanation for the ghosts and monsters at the end. We new from the beginning none of it was real and that there was going to be an explanation. Once they started doing the cartoons where the monsters and ghosts were real, the show started to suck. Well, that and Scrappy-doo. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/118 "2010-05-12T13:01:17Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Here’s the thing. If you’ve had a wise, mysterious, evidently magical person strolling about, referring vaguely to the specialness of the island and the need to protect it, you aren’t providing any actual answers or enlightenment by showing us the prior wise, mysterious, evidently magical person who spoke to \*him \*vaguely about the specialness of the island and the need to protect it! This. A thousand times this. It’s exactly why I’m so disappointed in this episode. Instead of getting answers, we got the same questions asked in a slightly different way. And it seems to me that “The Source of The Island’s Power” changes at least once a season. First, it was The Others. Then, it was The Hatch. Then, it was Jacob. Then, it was an electromagnetic anomaly. Then, it was Jacob again. Now, it’s “The Light”. Make up your damn minds! ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/119 "2010-05-12T13:20:09Z")
I’m still debating whether it was a total flop or I’m just nonplussed. I just didn’t expect the writers of Lost to have the secrets of the universe. I’m somewhat satisfied with the MacGuffin, but I thought it was a little cowardly the way this episode unfolded. My take is that this is the source of life. Essentially, where souls come from. Not TOO bad. But make the WHY interesting. I also don’t think they went far enough in non-metaphysical storytelling. Shouldn’t we have gotten some insight into the history of people coming to the island? When was the statue built? In what time frame was this episode? It was mediocre television. I did know from the second we saw the glowing cave that the ending of Lost was going to go over like a fart in church. > [@randwill](#): > > I’m thinking the only answer we’re going to get about why strange and mysterious things happen on the island is going to be…it’s a strange and mysterious island. I’m _probably_ ok with this. But I wish they’d do it more artfully. > [@cmyk](#): > > The only theory I can come up with now is the Island is the “well of souls” where all humanity springs from? They did seem to suggest it. We all have a piece of it in us, but our greedy nature craves more. It isn’t exactly a new theory and I think that is the disappointment. > [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > This is the network-televison equivalent of blue balls. Either that or something of a cock tease. > [@Jester](#): > > I both agree and disagree with this. I didn’t hate the episode, because I’m also not expecting the show to give all the answers (man, how boring would that be: the entire last episode would just be an hour-long dissertation read by Locke). One thing I will give the producers, they do want to avoid the “explainer” role. When asked about the answers we will get, they said they will NOT be pulling a Matrix 3 with an old man in the white room explaining it all. However, that does not give them a pass. We expected answers delivered with quality storytelling. > [@](#): > > But, while I’m not totally satisfied, I’m also not too bummed about this episode, because we still have the equivalent of three full episodes left. Temporally, we’re close to the end of the season, but there’s a bit of an illusion there because it’s three eps sandwiched into a week. That’s still plenty of episode time to bring things to a compelling finish, now that they’ve gotten the Smokey exposition out of the way. I would’ve preferred that they do it in a different fashion, but hey. It’s their show and it’s entertained the hell out of me for more than half a decade, so I’ll let it slide. Kind of my theory. I’m not going to let the ending ruin my good time. Most shows do NOT end well. Still a chance to salvage this thing, but otherwise I’m remaining positive. > [@Mehitabel](#): > > **Meltdown** opined: > Titus Welliver’s form is back walking around in 2004/07 or whenever the hell we are, so did he re-possess his own dead body like Locke’s? I assume he can take the form of any dead body on the island, and so he generally chooses his own when dealing with Jacob. > [@Jihi](#): > > And FTR, I love the West Wing and Janney was completely wasted in this episode. It smells of panic. They knew that they couldn’t live up to expectations and sent a multiple Emmy winner out there to soften the blow. > [@Bootis](#): > > Most of the people objecting to everything that happens have been doing so for the last 4 seasons. Not so sure I agree with this. I’m seeing some negative comments from people who have been around since Day 1 and who have never been haters. > [@Jihi](#): > > For myself I’ve felt that others have laid down unrealistic expectations. Even very early on I knew that certain mysteries were going to be deemed superfluous and I accepted that. But Jacob and Smokey became central to the show, they formed the backbone of it’s mythology, and that’s all I, personally, wanted addressed in some definitive fashion. I felt that pretty much everything else had been answered sufficiently. Richard and the Others, Dharma, the pregnancy issues, the cabin, time travel, the significance of the numbers, travel to and from the island…explanations were laid out and I accepted them. Few of them were spelled out explicitly, but I never expected that. > > But this was about the origins of Jacob and Smokey and the nature of the island, these are the only mysteries left that still matter. Instead of giving us something meaningful they pulled their usual stunt and moved the goal posts once again. This was the one episode I _didn’t_ expect them to do that in. At this point there isn’t anyone still watching the show who’s not going to tune into the bitter end. Who or what did they think they were going to hook with this? In another thread I said the only mystery I care about anymore is concerning the truth of Jacob and Smokey and why they’re on island. We still really don’t know the answer to that question. At this point, as I said in that thread, I don’t think we’re going to see an answer at all. They’re there because of the ‘light’ in the cave. What is it? Is is a pocket of electromagnetism as we’ve seen hinted at for five years now? is it something more? What is Smokey and why does someone need to ‘bottle’ him on the island? Who was ‘Mom’, and why was she there? Why was she looking for a replacement? Why were the others 'evil? Who were they? > > Is the entire show built on a macguffin? Are we not supposed to care about the islands nature? Only that it’s ‘important’? And our losties were candidates to replace Jacob based simply on the premise that the ‘bad things’ can’t leave it? Honestly if the show weren’t ending next week I might have more patience with it. But this is the end! Why are they still shoveling more questions our way? > > Breathing deeply… The show still has the equivalent of three episodes to go and they could still pull this off, I admit that. But this was a seriously wasted opportunity. > > The fact that they turned Jacob into a wussy man child may have pissed me off more than anything. They should have left his past alone rather than doing something like this to him. If this were Facebook, middleman would like this post. It kind of has that “I’m not a fanboy hater, but I feel a little…cheap and used” feeling that I am experiencing. > [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > A couple things: The thing in the cave is a larger version owhat was in Marsalis Wallace’s briefcase. I thought the same thing when I first saw it! > [@](#): > > Esau can’t leave the island because he is not Esau. What he is is bound to the island due to its very nature. It can only leave its containment under a certain set of circumstances and his substance doesn’t play well with the world at large. Think matter/antimatter. I was thinking that the cave sucked all the “light” out of him. Now, he’s like anti-matter (or “anti-soul”) and could suck the light out of humanity. It’s not a BAD solution. Again, I just didn’t care for the execution. > [@Skott](#): > > Some other thoughts: > > The Source isn’t what Locke saw: You can hear the sound of the Smoke Monster when he’s confronted by it and I’m pretty sure the Temple was built over the Source anyway. That’s a good theory. The Sayid pool would be fed by the stream. > [@](#): > > [li]The language: My wife speaks Spanish (and I understand it okay) and we could understand what they were saying without subtitles. It sounded almost, but not quite, like Spanish. My guess, therefore, is Portuguese.[/li] Living in Texas, I understand a little Spanglish, and I felt that it was a little off, so I also figured Portugese. So, what does that say about the timing of the episode? The Portugese were early sailors, but not so early that they came before Egyptians. I’m so confused about that damn statue. A few other things: - How does the MiB just “know” things? This has been hinted many times. He just “knows” how to build a donkey wheel. I don’t think it is clunky storytelling. He has some special ability. - I actually kind of liked wussy Jacob. It has been at least centuries since this episode. I’d like to think he developed and learned. - Why does the MiB (and Sawyer/Sayid) see ghosts of their childhood self, when they both lived at least 40+ years as men? Not giving up on the hope that we get somewhere with this…just lowering my expectations. But still…fart in church. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072/120 "2010-05-12T13:45:41Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > One thing I will give the producers, they do want to avoid the “explainer” role. When asked about the answers we will get, they said they will NOT be pulling a Matrix 3 with an old man in the white room explaining it all. However, that does not give them a pass. We expected answers delivered with quality storytelling. I don’t want explainations or treknobabble, I just want rules. The smoke monster can do A/B/D, but not C. I don’t care how/why: “It’s magic and that’s how it works” is all I need. I didn’t get that and this episode is where those rules should have come from. (And I still say this episode should have been aired seasons earlier or at least early this season.) > [@](#): > > I was thinking that the cave sucked all the “light” out of him. Now, he’s like anti-matter (or “anti-soul”) and could suck the light out of humanity. It’s not a BAD solution. Again, I just didn’t care for the execution. I like that. > [@](#): > > - How does the MiB just “know” things? This has been hinted many times. He just “knows” how to build a donkey wheel. I don’t think it is clunky storytelling. He has some special ability. There’s always been “special” people: Waaaaaaalt was one. Which is why I’m so incredibly disappointed that they didn’t follow up with Waaaaaaalt at all–he’s too old…so? Something aged him. Just have Grandma make a single comment about it and POOF. We’re good. Of all the dangling major plotlines, this seems like the most wasted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-15-across-the-sea/539072.md?page=7)