# LOST 6.16 "What They Died For" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915 "2010-05-18T17:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/61 "2010-05-19T11:24:33Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > So…going back to N9IWP spoilers…no longer any reason to keep it a spoiler… > > What did I miss that answered why Sun said “It’s him” of the Alt-Locke? Is it the fact that Alt-Locke is a critical cog in the Alt timeline (which we already “knew” anyhow)? > > If one ever needed to obtain unobtainium, I think Alt-Desmond is the only man who could obtain it. I don’t think this one was resolved. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/62 "2010-05-19T11:35:14Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Jacob: The One Smokey was forged in the glow of the Light Cave. Only there can he be undone. You must take Smokey to the Cave of Light and cast him back into the glowing chasm from whence he came. One of you… must do this. > > Jack: I will do it. Though… I do not know the way. > Sawyer: You have my hoard. > Hurley: And my dough. > Kate: And _my_ ass… 😃 > [@Carnick](#): > > I can forgive the producers for not giving us a reason for the four toed statue, and stretching out the big mystery for one last shocking reveal, but not giving us a clear picture on what’s at stake has been a huge failure. Yes - this! This was a huge improvement over last week. And I’m even willing to accept stuff like “saying magic words over a drink makes it give you powers and [presumably] the knowledge of how to protect the light,” and the little joke about Kate’s name and so forth. But why is this all so important? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/63 "2010-05-19T12:07:01Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Perhaps Ben isn’t really bad, but killed Widmore to spoil FLocke’s plans. Maybe he purposely broke the rules to screw things up. To force a stalemate (for lack of a better term.) “I lie. It’s what I do!”. Ben hasn’t gone evil. Let’s keep in mind that before he rats out Widmore and Tina Fey he had Miles in the room too. Miles is safe. I think it was all done to protect Miles. It annoys me that Richard got such an ignominious death. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/64 "2010-05-19T12:10:05Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > “I lie. It’s what I do!”. > > Ben hasn’t gone evil. Let’s keep in mind that before he rats out Widmore and Tina Fey he had Miles in the room too. Miles is safe. I think it was all done to protect Miles. > > It annoys me that Richard got such an ignominious death. > > -Joe 1. I agree Ben has not turned back to evil. 2. Are we absolutely sure Richard is dead? Have the producers confirmed this? ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/65 "2010-05-19T12:16:17Z")
I really doubt Richard is dead. We saw him get slammed by Smokey, that’s all. And he’s relatively immortal. Watch for him to crawl desperately somewhere and raise a trembling hand to do something vital on Sunday. I sure hope Ben is shamming - they did such a good job redeeming him, it would feel like a cheat to have him instantaneously turn evil again. Count me in as enjoying the hell out of smooth Desmond. I even understand the reason why he’s not explaining his purposes to people, which is refreshing! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/66 "2010-05-19T12:20:16Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > “I lie. It’s what I do!”. > > Ben hasn’t gone evil. Let’s keep in mind that before he rats out Widmore and Tina Fey he had Miles in the room too. Miles is safe. I think it was all done to protect Miles. > > It annoys me that Richard got such an ignominious death. > > -Joe I thought Miles took off? He and Ben have a walkie-talkie link now, don’t they? Not sure if this is for good or ill… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/67 "2010-05-19T12:24:29Z")
One aside: It was freaking _awesome_ to see Mia Furlan/Crazy French Lady again. She is a fabulous actress—just that little of reaction in her kitchen as Alt-Ben is tearing up was brilliant. I really regretted her non-sideways death…there’s so much more that they could have done with her\*. Of all the second-banana characters, she’s probably my favorite. (She was great on B5 too–she could even make the occasionally…um…overblown 😉 dialogue sound fantastic) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/68 "2010-05-19T12:32:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I just heard about this show today. Is it too late to start watching? Nope. [Got ten minutes](http://sky1.sky.com/lost-reduced-the-complete-performance)? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/69 "2010-05-19T12:37:59Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Knowing that they had all of last season and all of this season to resolve things, they’ve utterly failed regarding the pacing. > […] > I’d hoped that knowing that they only had 40 (?) episodes left-(~20 last season, ~20 this season) someone would have sat down and graphed stuff out and dropped a lot of the “monster-du-jour” episodes. The final deal was for 48 episodes over 3 seasons, not 40 over 2. The producers knew the exact end date before they started season 4. I see they even named the first episode of season 4 “The Beginning of the End.” heh. Though I think they had to deal with the writer’s strike in season 4, meaning they only got 13 episodes instead of 16. Still, it’s fair to say they knew the end date halfway through the series. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/70 "2010-05-19T12:44:42Z")
A good episode. > [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > Of course, the most awesome reveal we’ve gotten so far this season was when Hurley found Shannon’s inhaler. You could hear the collective OMG! from _Lost_ fans around the world. So THAT’S where it was! Six years of suspense finally resolved! Was there a mystery surrounding her inhaler? I thought that was just a through back. I thought Sawyer had it all along. Had she lost it and he had someone else’s? I’m a diehard Lost junkie and I don’t see a mystery there…😕 > [@Shoeless](#): > > Well, if it makes you feel any better, I thought it was funny, because I remembered you being the one who ran the LOST threads the first couple of seasons. 😃 I liked it too. > [@JerseyMarine2092](#): > > If he doesn’t the ethnic cleansing of the Island will be complete. Other than the most positive latino character in the history of television! > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Did Richard die for sure then? I think so. But when they didn’t show his body, it made me mad that they are still pulling that game. > [@JohnT](#): > > That was rather sudden… > > “You must protect the mysterious light in the middle of the island.” > > “I’ll do it.” > > Anybody going to ask why the light needs to be protected? This is Jack. Jack doesn’t ask questions!😃 > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Are we supposed to know exactly why Desmond is a “fail-safe”? I got the impression that him going into the cave of light was in the works as it would not turn him smokey. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Good call, **Blueberry**. > > I’m desperately hoping for a satisfying conclusion. This episode raised me up from total despair to cautious optimism. If **Ellis Dee** (and I’ve only recently gotten the humor in your name) is keeping his chin up despite all evidence to the contrary, I’m remaining optimistic as well. > [@Eman\_Resu](#): > > Couldn’t quite tell what it was, so it must have been more Portuguese. 😉 I’m just glad you didn’t quote my post from last week’s thread. Those were dark times for me!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/71 "2010-05-19T12:59:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. Are we absolutely sure Richard is dead? Have the producers confirmed this? I would guess that Richard, having been granted immortality by Jacob, can only die by a hand that is not the Smoke Monster’s. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/72 "2010-05-19T13:11:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess my joke fell flat. I was thinking what it would be like for someone to start watching tonight’s episode w/o having ever seen an earlier episode. … I got your joke and was trying to make one of my own. So if your joke was flat, what does that make mine? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/73 "2010-05-19T13:13:28Z")
Wait a sec: Of the four remaining candidates, we were told that they were picked because, like Jacob, they were all “flawed” (and by “flawed”, I assume he means mommy/daddy issues) How does Hurley fit there? His “daddy” issues are so mild that they were mentioned like…what? twice? (Dad left. Boo-hoo. It’s certainly not in the “My dad shot and killed my mom and then himself in front of me” category). His only other issue had something to do with him being fat and that causing something to break or something (can someone refresh me on this bit?), killing people. But even then, he’d seriously gotten over that by the time the show started. Frankly, Hurley’s the only more-or-less well adjusted person of anyone who’d ever been on the island. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/74 "2010-05-19T13:17:59Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > “I’m going to destroy the island” doesn’t exactly fit in with that offer of letting Ben have the island. No, but it fits with the flash sideways, I think. I remember earlier on in this season we see the island _underwater_, which could be essentially destroyed… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/75 "2010-05-19T13:24:32Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > No, but it fits with the flash sideways, I think. I remember earlier on in this season we see the island _underwater_, which could be essentially destroyed… Which would make them flash forwards? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/76 "2010-05-19T13:48:41Z")
One thing bothered me about this episode, and maybe it’s trivial, but why didn’t Jacob give Jack[-ob] some of that wine instead of just water? Makes me wonder how real his conversion is. Maybe it’s just sort of temporary conversion so he can “end it” and let Jack go back to his normal life. Just a wild thought… I don’t think Richard is dead. But I just laughed at the idea that Widmore thought he could hide from Smokey in a “closet”. Farcical!! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/77 "2010-05-19T13:49:20Z")
I’m a little perplexed as to why people are saying this episode is so much better than the last one. And I guess the fits, since I was perplexed at why most here people (who are rarely ever very critical of the show) didn’t like that one. That was a fluke, and this is just returning to the norm. Not sure why though. Stuff happened, but none of it really had meaning. I mean - Ben vs Widmore was a huge conflict for 2 seasons of the show, it was mysterious yet important. How was it resolved? Ben just went ahead shot Widmore for no apparent reason. He claims that he didn’t want to give Widmore the chance to save his daughter, but obviously Smokey has no reason to go through with his promise to kill her if Widmore is dead. Besides all that, Ben is supposed to be prevented by the mystical rules of the island from killing him anyway. It seems like Widmore’s arc is resolved, yet we really have no idea what Widmore’s intentions were this entire time and he’s been a major player for most of the series. As a nice touch to rub in the arbitrary and unexplained nature of it all, the audience doesn’t even get to hear Widmore’s last words, which might shed some light on his intentions. Ok, so Jack is the new Jacob. That was… perfunctory. Jacob basically says “hey, magic light needs to be protected, who wants this shit?” and Jack said “yeah ok whatever, I will take on this indefinite responsibility where I become a magical mysterious asshole on this weird ass island I’ve been trapped on without an explanation. That’s how I roll, son.” He doesn’t bother to ask what this “light of the island” Jacob just brought up for the first time is, or what he’d have to do, or any questions about the nature of the island. He just goes ahead and accepts it. The explanation as to why they were candidates was pretty unsatisfying. Yep, you have unmet needs in your life. That makes you a very unique human being! That’s what I brought you here! Sorry, I just can’t see what’s good here - things were resolved more or less arbitrarily, not in a way that’s enlightening to us. Now you might say you’re holding out for the final episode to give more satisfying explanations, and that’s fine, but I still don’t get why that makes this episode so much better than the previous one. I suspect a lot of the resolutions in the finale will be equally perfunctory as the ones here. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/78 "2010-05-19T13:50:15Z")
You know, I’m starting to wonder if Flocke is actually the Smoke Monster. I mean, we never actually see him turn into smoke - and Lost surely has the budget to do that effect if they wished. Moreover, they sort of hung a lampshade on this in last night’s episode - Flocke’s claim that he only walks because he likes to remember he was human doesn’t really hold water. Sure, I can understand walking around under other circumstances - but this is the endgame now, Flocke’s in a hurry, and the Island is a big place. I think the reason Flocke doesn’t turn into smoke and fly is that he _can’t_ - either because the Smoke Monster is an entirely different creature, or because he doesn’t actually have control over what he does in smoke form. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/79 "2010-05-19T14:00:31Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > You know, I’m starting to wonder if Flocke is actually the Smoke Monster. I mean, we never actually see him turn into smoke - and Lost surely has the budget to do that effect if they wished. Moreover, they sort of hung a lampshade on this in last night’s episode - Flocke’s claim that he only walks because he likes to remember he was human doesn’t really hold water. Sure, I can understand walking around under other circumstances - but this is the endgame now, Flocke’s in a hurry, and the Island is a big place. > > I think the reason Flocke doesn’t turn into smoke and fly is that he _can’t_ - either because the Smoke Monster is an entirely different creature, or because he doesn’t actually have control over what he does in smoke form. I wouldn’t assume they have the budget. Have you seen most of their SFX? Pretty terrible looking, really. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/80 "2010-05-19T14:02:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > … Stuff happened, but none of it really had meaning. > … It seems like Widmore’s arc is resolved, yet we really have no idea what Widmore’s intentions were this entire time and he’s been a major player for most of the series. > … Jacob basically says “hey, magic light needs to be protected, who wants this shit?” and Jack said “yeah ok whatever, I will take on this indefinite responsibility where I become a magical mysterious asshole on this weird ass island I’ve been trapped on without an explanation. That’s how I roll, son.” He doesn’t bother to ask what this “light of the island” Jacob just brought up for the first time is, or what he’d have to do, or any questions about the nature of the island. He just goes ahead and accepts it. > … The explanation as to why they were candidates was pretty unsatisfying. Yep, you have unmet needs in your life. That makes you a very unique human being! That’s what I brought you here! I was going to post that my view seems directly opposite to the crowd here: I defended last weeks episode and felt frustrated by this one. Then **SenorBeef** came along and beat me to just about everything I was going to say. Still, I’m holding out for an awesome finale. They had better not let us down! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=5)