# LOST 6.16 "What They Died For" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915 "2010-05-18T17:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/81 "2010-05-19T14:10:40Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > You know, I’m starting to wonder if Flocke is actually the Smoke Monster. I mean, we never actually see him turn into smoke - and Lost surely has the budget to do that effect if they wished. I remember early this season, maybe the first episode, we had a Smokey-cam view flying around the island, then the camera hovers over a knife on the ground . . . and then Locke’s hand picks it up. BTW, when Desmond was watching Locke again in the parking lot, did anyone else think he was going to run over him again and finish the job? ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/82 "2010-05-19T14:13:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > One thing bothered me about this episode, and maybe it’s trivial, but why didn’t Jacob give Jack[-ob] some of that wine instead of just water? Makes me wonder how real his conversion is. Didn’t Esau break the wine bottle a few episodes back? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/83 "2010-05-19T14:14:39Z")
@ John Mace: I assumed Jacob had turned the water into wine. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/84 "2010-05-19T14:16:55Z")
Sawyer, watching Jack accompany Jacob to walk out into the forest: “And I thought ol’ Doc had a God complex before . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/85 "2010-05-19T14:19:07Z")
What I don’t get is what exactly is Jacob. It seems to me that this season he’s essentially a human, who dies (either this season or the end of last season, I can’t remember) and his spirit is ‘trapped’. So Hurley can see him. Yet, earlier in the series (season 2 or 3), he was already a ‘ghost’ type person, since Ben couldn’t actually see him (only hear him). ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/86 "2010-05-19T14:19:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Credible](#): > > Yes, let’s “fix” things so that we’re all dead. > > They may want to rethink going along with this plan. If they think fixing things will save the people they love, well that’s something to die for isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/87 "2010-05-19T14:20:53Z")
“What’s that, a secreter room?” ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/88 "2010-05-19T14:23:31Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Yet, earlier in the series (season 2 or 3), he was already a ‘ghost’ type person, since Ben couldn’t actually see him (only hear him). Ben was lying. That’s what he does. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/89 "2010-05-19T14:31:15Z")
My prediction now that Jack has become the new protector of the island… And I hate that I’m even typing this because I really don’t care about the relationship aspects of this show, but I think the series will end with Jack and Kate together and he’ll make her immortal like Jacob did for Richard, so they can be together forever. Seems like the kind of sappy crap this show might pull. OR we’ll flash forward to her old and dying on the island and Jack looking the same age. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/90 "2010-05-19T14:36:14Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Ben was lying. That’s what he does. Maybe, but Locke couldn’t really see him either. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/91 "2010-05-19T14:58:26Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > One aside: It was freaking _awesome_ to see Mia Furlan/Crazy French Lady again. She is a fabulous actress—just that little of reaction in her kitchen as Alt-Ben is tearing up was brilliant. I really regretted her non-sideways death…there’s so much more that they could have done with her\*. Of all the second-banana characters, she’s probably my favorite. (She was great on B5 too–she could even make the occasionally…um…overblown 😉 dialogue sound fantastic) Oh, yeah! I think this was my favorite scene last night, wasn’t expecting her! She looked very pretty, too, all cleaned up. I hated her non-sideways death. She was shot. Killed. Just like that. She was my favorite character, after Sawyer, as far as looking forward to characters’ scenes. I loved her stern craziness, the way she lugged around that enormous rifle, the eerieness of some of her scenes. That repeating-message she made at the radio tower still haunts my dreams. A little. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/92 "2010-05-19T15:05:14Z")
Miles had a whole string of great lines in a relatively small role this week. “If you need me, I’ll be running through the jungle.” But as we step back and see how the story is resolving itself and we can smell the barn from here…I have to say that: I miss the Dharma Initiative. I think my favorite episodes were all those Season 2 eps where we start to get glimpses into the DI: the Marvin Candle videos, the secret map, the numbers, Defcon Penguin, new stations revealed…that was a great arc that just kinda petered out. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/93 "2010-05-19T15:06:49Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > But even then, he’d seriously gotten over that by the time the show started. Frankly, Hurley’s the only more-or-less well adjusted person of anyone who’d ever been on the island. Other than that whole stay at the mental ward!😃 > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think Richard is dead. But I just laughed at the idea that Widmore thought he could hide from Smokey in a “closet”. Farcical!! The hand gesture that Ben gave Flocke when he led him to the closet was hilarious. It was the gesture of a man who just doesn’t care anymore. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > The explanation as to why they were candidates was pretty unsatisfying. Yep, you have unmet needs in your life. That makes you a very unique human being! That’s what I brought you here! And guys at comics shops everywhere said “We ARE special!” > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > You know, I’m starting to wonder if Flocke is actually the Smoke Monster. I mean, we never actually see him turn into smoke - and Lost surely has the budget to do that effect if they wished. Moreover, they sort of hung a lampshade on this in last night’s episode - Flocke’s claim that he only walks because he likes to remember he was human doesn’t really hold water. Sure, I can understand walking around under other circumstances - but this is the endgame now, Flocke’s in a hurry, and the Island is a big place. > > I think the reason Flocke doesn’t turn into smoke and fly is that he _can’t_ - either because the Smoke Monster is an entirely different creature, or because he doesn’t actually have control over what he does in smoke form. Evidence suggests that he is,but I also got some vibe in this episode that there is something more to it. Both that comment and the walking one seemed to indeed be lampshade material. > [@Koxinga](#): > > BTW, when Desmond was watching Locke again in the parking lot, did anyone else think he was going to run over him again and finish the job? Wouldn’t that have been the best unintentional comedy? Like something out of a Python movie. The guy that KEEPS getting hit by the car. > [@Meatros](#): > > Yet, earlier in the series (season 2 or 3), he was already a ‘ghost’ type person, since Ben couldn’t actually see him (only hear him). When Ben fond out Locke had actually heard Jacob (or Flocke, the jury is still out), he was jealous, indicating that he had never heard Jacob himself. So jealous, he shot him and dumped him in the Dharma Mass Grave. Speaking of graves, it WAS nice of Richard to go back and bury Alex. That was a good scene. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/94 "2010-05-19T15:15:26Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > When Ben fond out Locke had actually heard Jacob (or Flocke, the jury is still out), he was jealous, indicating that he had never heard Jacob himself. So jealous, he shot him and dumped him in the Dharma Mass Grave. And after Widmore revealed that Jacob had visited him personally, Ben decided to throw in his lot with the smoke monster. Anyone else notice that after Desmond clocked him, ATL Ben appeared to be sporting the same set of bruises as his Island counterpart? And what was up with ATL Jack waking up and finding he was bleeding from his neck? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/95 "2010-05-19T15:16:38Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Miles had a whole string of great lines in a relatively small role this week. “If you need me, I’ll be running through the jungle.” “Yeah, well, I lived in those houses thirty years before you did – otherwise known as last week.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/96 "2010-05-19T15:19:33Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > @ John Mace: I assumed Jacob had turned the water into wine. Yeah, I thought about that, of course. > [@Edward](#): > > Didn’t Esau break the wine bottle a few episodes back? He did? I don’t remember that, but could be. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/97 "2010-05-19T15:40:47Z")
Yep\*\* John Mace\*\*, he busted the wine bottle against a rock. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/98 "2010-05-19T15:44:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, I thought about that, of course. > He did? I don’t remember that, but could be. It was the end of the Richard flashback. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/99 "2010-05-19T15:45:39Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Maybe, but Locke couldn’t really see him either. I’d say that wasn’t Jacob at all, but Smokey.. manipulating them both. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/100 "2010-05-19T16:10:09Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Other than that whole stay at the mental ward!😃 \< John Astin \> But I’m feeling MUUUUCH better now! \< /John Astin \> Seriously though, yeah he was in a mental institution, but he got cured. Hence the trip to Australia. He’d even found closure when he talked to the widow of his mental institution buddy. He doesn’t come close to fitting the screwed-uppedness of the other three remaining candidates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=6)