# LOST 6.16 "What They Died For" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915 "2010-05-18T17:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/121 "2010-05-19T19:48:59Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Another quick question: > > In Room 23, why did the _Dharma_ video that Alex’s boyfriend was forced to watch contain the phrase “God loves you as he loves Jacob”? How did Dharma know about Jacob? That was post-Dharma. Those were “Others” living in New Otherton (formerly Dharmaville). But even prior, the Dharma-ites had contact with the “Hostiles” and new Richard by name. Not crazy that they would know something about Jacob. BTW, didn’t I read somewhere that the names in the cave were MIB’s and the names on the Lighthouse were Jacob’s? ---
**Author:** ![RainGrowsBrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RainGrowsBrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainGrowsBrite)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/122 "2010-05-19T20:20:53Z")
Just a little theory… So I actually dont think that Jack is going to end up being the new Jacob. I think that somehow his love for his ATL-Son will cause him to somehow walk away from the job. I think that Ben is destined to be the new Jacob. I think he’s faking his old evil ways to gain the trust of Smocke so that he can kill him. Also, I’m not convinced that anyone has to be the new Smokey. But if anyone was going to turn into one, I think Sawyer is a good candidate. He’s lost his will to live after Juliette and his feeling responsible for Sun and Jin. ---
**Author:** ![RainGrowsBrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RainGrowsBrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainGrowsBrite)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/123 "2010-05-19T20:22:44Z")
Also… my husband and I laughed so loud after Kate asked about her crossed out name and Jake replied: “Its just chalk Kate, you can have the job if you want it…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/124 "2010-05-19T20:33:56Z")
Here’s the exchange I really wanted: “So what originally caused this light, and this island, to be here?” ::shrugs:: “Dunno. The woman who killed my mother and raised me didn’t explain anything to me either before she was herself killed by Esau.” ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/125 "2010-05-19T20:51:28Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Couldn’t Jacob find a better way to track the candidates other than scrawling their names on a remote cave wall? > > Someone had to build that lighthouse. I assume it was Jacob because the candidates’ names were there. The names in the lighthouse are redundant with the cave wall, no? > > When we had about 6 candidates left, he made a special trip down to the cave to cross Kate’s name off the wall? There’s not much else to do on the island. He’s had spare time since Seinfeld went off the air. > [@RainGrowsBrite](#): > > Just a little theory… > > So I actually dont think that Jack is going to end up being the new Jacob. I think that somehow his love for his ATL-Son will cause him to somehow walk away from the job. I think that Ben is destined to be the new Jacob. I think he’s faking his old evil ways to gain the trust of Smocke so that he can kill him. > > Also, I’m not convinced that anyone has to be the new Smokey. But if anyone was going to turn into one, I think Sawyer is a good candidate. He’s lost his will to live after Juliette and his feeling responsible for Sun and Jin. We can all bitch and moan about the ending, writing, and production, but hasn’t the acting been heroically good despite these flaws? Sawyer’s look of anguish when he asked Jack if he was to blame, and Jack’s compassion when he told him it was Flocke’s fault. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/126 "2010-05-19T21:13:09Z")
Yes, one thing I won’t complain about is the high quality of the acting. This cast has done themselves proud. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/127 "2010-05-19T21:15:46Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Good stuff. There’s been a bunch of impressive acting from the bunch on this show over the years, but the runaway winner is definitely Michael Emerson. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/128 "2010-05-19T21:35:36Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > There’s been a bunch of impressive acting from the bunch on this show over the years, but the runaway winner is definitely Michael Emerson. > > -Joe I’d suggest he’s tied, neck-and-neck, with Terry O’Quinn. (With Mira Furlan getting “Best Supporting Actress” 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/129 "2010-05-19T22:29:09Z")
Yes, the acting has been superb. As it happened, I watched an old episode of Next Generation after Lost - the one where Dr. Crusher tries to help the Ferengi scientist with his Metaphasic Shield, (and inexplicably narrates the whole thing like a bad Nancy Drew episode), and I sat there thinking “there’s no way Gates McFadden even gets a Lost callback for Dead Oceanic Passenger #3” ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/130 "2010-05-19T22:42:19Z")
Good Things About This Episode: 1. _Ben is back!:_ Yes, I admit I felt a slight tinge of sympathy for Ol’ Bugeyes back when Ilana had him at gunpoint and he went all “I got no place else to go!” But I suspected he wasn’t so much a changed man as just a desperate man with nothing to lose. And when it came down to a choice of helping the man responsible for his daughter’s death or helping Smokey, his actions were . . . so perfectly Benlike. (Although I’m still not sure why he was suddenly able to kill Widmore.) 2. \*Widmore’s mission explained (sort of): \*I guess Jacob finally got tired of him being such a pompous jerk, gave him a good talking to about all that sending-mercenaries-to-kill-everyone business, and set him on the righteous path. Which promptly got him killed. But oh well! That’s our crazy Jacob! And at least we know why Desmond’s there. Kind of. 3. _Desmond being awesome in the ATL:_ After season after season of just wishing the poor guy could get a break, we finally get to see Des in a state other than total confusion/barely-controlled panic. Now he’s the cool cat who knows what’s going down, and he’s diggin’ it! I have no idea what he’s got planned for the ATL Losties at the concert, but seeing him take on the role of master manipulator is pretty cool. I _really_ hope he and Penny end up with a happy ending in the ATL. (And, sicko that I am, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when it looked like he was going to run down Locke _again_.) 4. \*Jacob comes clean, admits he’s an idiot (sort of): \*After proving himself to be one of the duller knives in the drawer last week, at least Jacob manned up enough to admit that all the crazy crap that’s ever happened to the Losties was pretty much his fault. It was a relief to see him actually explain some things straight out, like why Kate’s name was crossed out at the cave. However, this leads me to . . . Not So Good Things About This Episode: 1. \*What about the Lighthouse?: \*Yeah, we got more about the names in the cave, but did everyone forget about the other set of names, you know, the one at the \*magic lighthouse \*with the _magic mirrors_? No one was remotely curious about that? We know Jacob used it to find the candidates, but could Jack do the same when his job as Protector is done (assuming he figures out a way to replace the mirrors he stupidly shattered)? Maybe it will show up again in the finale. But I doubt it. 2. \*Jack remains an idiot: \* True, this is nothing new, but as other posters have pointed out, would it have been so hard to just ASK Jacob what the “light at the heart of the Island” is and why protecting it is so important? People applying for a part-time job ask more questions than Jack did. At least when Jacob drank the Magic Kool-Aid, he had 30 years of brainwashing by CrazyMom to partially excuse him. What was Jack’s excuse? Oh yeah: he’s an idiot. 3. \*Smokey can’t make up his mind: \*This is the part I’m really confused about. When did his plan go from simply “get off the Island” to “destroy the eternal light at the heart of the Island and thereby cause the end of all things, mwa-ha-ha-ha”? Did he give up on killing the candidates because his bomb trick wasn’t 100% successful? Does he just not care anymore, and he wants to die and take everyone else with him? And why would he tell Ben about this, after promising to leave the Island under his control? Overall this was a huge improvement over last week’s episode, and things finally seem to be coming together. But can they really pull it off, even in 2.5 hours? I don’t know . . . ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/131 "2010-05-19T22:43:12Z")
> [@RainGrowsBrite](#): > > Also, I’m not convinced that anyone has to be the new Smokey. But if anyone was going to turn into one, I think Sawyer is a good candidate. He’s lost his will to live after Juliette and his feeling responsible for Sun and Jin. If they’re going to maintain the ying/yang siblings aspect, it seems like Claire might make a better choice for the monster. She’s already deranged, is eager to get off the island to see her son, and would hate Jack if he protected Kate or let her escape. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/132 "2010-05-19T22:46:43Z")
Speaking of Claire, where is she? Still sitting on the dock back on Hydra Island? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/133 "2010-05-19T22:49:55Z")
The whole “ying/yang siblings aspect” was an unintended consequence, first of Jacob having a surprise twin and secondly, Jacob for throwing his brother down the well. Prior to that, it appeared that Alison Janney’s character was the sole caretaker on the island, and intended only one son to remain in that role. And as someone pointed out, I would have expected Jack to ask a few more questions of Jacob when the role was offered to him. Particularly as Jacob said that they wouldn’t see him again after the fire died out, you’d think you’d want to get as many questions answered as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/134 "2010-05-19T22:59:47Z")
I hope Desmond isn’t planning to see that everyone goes to the concert, and then blows them up. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/135 "2010-05-19T23:11:48Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > 1. \*Jack remains an idiot: \* True, this is nothing new, but as other posters have pointed out, would it have been so hard to just ASK Jacob what the “light at the heart of the Island” is and why protecting it is so important? People applying for a part-time job ask more questions than Jack did. At least when Jacob drank the Magic Kool-Aid, he had 30 years of brainwashing by CrazyMom to partially excuse him. What was Jack’s excuse? Oh yeah: he’s an idiot. Didnt see the episode yet but I would hope that after he takes the drink someone asks Jack what everything is and Jack replies, “It’s complicated.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/136 "2010-05-19T23:12:21Z")
I wonder how many of the alternate losties, after getting a chance to grok their counterparts will resist merging because they don’t want to become…THAT. Especially when in several cases THAT is dead or a complete monster. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/137 "2010-05-19T23:41:52Z")
Wait a sec…so Jacob chose the losties because they were lonely losers like him? But…wait…what about Sayid: he was going to meet his long-lost girlfriend after pulling his life back together. He was _starting_ his second chance. For that matter, so were Hurley and Anna-Lucia. Both of them had found closure in Australia and were ready to begin anew. Jacob’s motives make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/138 "2010-05-19T23:45:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I wonder how many of the alternate losties, after getting a chance to grok their counterparts will resist merging because they don’t want to become…THAT. Especially when in several cases THAT is dead or a complete monster. I think in all cases, the original character is much worse off in life than the ALT counterpart. ---
**Author:** ![Carnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carnick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnick)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/139 "2010-05-19T23:58:45Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’m making a conscious effort to be optimistic. To that end, I’d say we should only care inasmuch as it would kill everyone on it, including all the surviving main characters. Yeah, except… Jin and Sun are dead. Frank is dead. Sayid was turned into a zombie and exploded. Claire is a zombie. Locke prime is just a meat suit. Desmond is astral planing between realities. That leaves us with Jack, Hurley, Kate, and Sawyer. Jack is now a demigod and can’t die by conventional means. The only person I really care about in the remaining three is Hurley. And besides, everyone that isn’t dead is nice and safe in the parallel universe, so there’s no tension. Or are they not safe? More potential tension unexplained. I’m not one to poop a show, but they’ve made some really weird choices this season, even for Lost standards. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915/140 "2010-05-20T00:37:37Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > There’s been a bunch of impressive acting from the bunch on this show over the years, but the runaway winner is definitely Michael Emerson. > > -Joe I would have agreed until this season, but Terry O’Quinn found another gear. My top five in order: 1. TOQ 2. Emerson 3. Elizabeth Mitchell 4. Henry Ian Cusick 5. Jorge Garcia [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-16-what-they-died-for/539915.md?page=8)