# LOST 6.17 "The End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459 "2010-05-23T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/281 "2010-05-24T14:11:17Z")
I thought it was ok, I have no idea what I think it was all about though. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/282 "2010-05-24T14:13:10Z")
Airliners can’t back themselves up. They have to be pushed back with a tractor. Other than that, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/283 "2010-05-24T14:19:18Z")
I loved it to. Kinda looped me at first, but after I thought it about for a few minutes it kinda of all made sense. Still seems a waste of an alt-timeline story (I was actually enjoying that part!). Damn if I didn’t love all that sappy moments tho!! Made me want to go back and watch it all again. But count me as a little dissapointed we didn’t learn about how the island works and how the hell it transported them through time. And how the heck they all survived a freakin hydrogen bomb if setting it off didn’t actually “reset” anything?? And how does the light “move” an island?? argg ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/284 "2010-05-24T14:21:12Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Airliners can’t back themselves up. They have to be pushed back with a tractor. Other than that, meh. Yes they can, they have thrust reversers to do it. Most push back because backing up using TRs uses a non trivial amount of fuel, however. Backing up in sand would not happen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/285 "2010-05-24T14:22:16Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I keep hearing the line that it is about the characters and not the mythology, and I find that a false choice. Great television or film can be about both. It is not like you have to abandon the story to show great characterization. Have the characters react to the story. True, but when I say “it’s about the characters” that’s more or less what I mean; they were very even-handed in dealing with the plot that actually impacted their main characters. Everyone found out what they needed to know for their stories (for the most part), and nobody found out the Grand Secret of the Island because for them, that was never really the issue. Again, it’s the Force analogy: Luke doesn’t need to know where the Force comes from for it to impact his life; he just needs to learn how to wield it. And then twenty years later the midichlorians get tacked on and ruin everything, because it’s too much info, it’s lame, and it just wasn’t necessary. That’s how I would’ve felt had they tried to “explain” everything, mythology-wise. We got pieces of the puzzle, and they were the only ones that mattered to the characters. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/286 "2010-05-24T14:32:45Z")
Yeah, but with Lost, not only did we not get midichlorians, we didn’t even get the Force. The mysterious light in the middle of the island needs to be kept alive…why, exactly? Because otherwise all humanity will die, or because a great evil will be unleashed on the world, or what? Smokey can’t leave the island because…why, exactly? The midichlorians in Star Wars sucked because they took something very cool - the idea of the Force, which was a powerful energy surrounding every living thing that could be manipulated and used, either for good or for bad - and gave it a stupid tacked-on pseudo-scientific explanation. In Lost, there was no cool concept to ruin. There’s just this island, where a bunch of weird stuff happened for no apparent reason, and then the characters all went to the afterlife together. Whoopee. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/287 "2010-05-24T14:34:19Z")
Long time lurker (who originally joined just before the board went pay) delurking: I think how you feel about the ending depends on whether you thought Lost was a show about an Island or about the people who were on that island. Both are equally valid but it was the latter who got the more satisfying ending. While I hated the Hocus Pocus of the BSG finale, I liked this one. There are a great deal of interesting questions about the island and the various groups that have been there at one time or another but at it’s core, the show was about a group of people that left the island better people than they were when they arrived on it and I am okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/288 "2010-05-24T14:35:30Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > First off, cliff diving. I have cliff dived in Hawaii, although off a waterfall and not into the ocean. But never would I have, as a non-professional diver, dived HEAD FIRST into the ocean from a huge height into water possibly hiding rocky underwaters… Refresh my memory - what scene had cliff diving? (I’ll be re-watching of course). And getting into “overthinking this” territory… am I the only one who was thinking, as the plane took off, that Lapidus is going to have a LOT of 'splainin to do? regarding the Ajira flight, and Kate is going to have a lot of explaining to do about where Sawyer and Claire came from? FAA official: So… Mr. Lapidus: you say the plane crashed, but you can’t tell us where? And you lost most of the passengers but you STILL can’t tell us where they were buried? And how did you happen to find these two survivors who’ve been listed as dead for 3+ years? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/289 "2010-05-24T14:38:05Z")
Actually, totally random thought that I actually considered starting a thread for in GQ: How exactly would Richard Alpert re-integrate into society? I am talking about basic logistical stuff like, how would you be able to open a bank account or get a job without a birth certificate, social security number, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/290 "2010-05-24T14:43:14Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Yeah, but with Lost, not only did we not get midichlorians, we didn’t even get the Force. The mysterious light in the middle of the island needs to be kept alive…why, exactly? Because otherwise all humanity will die, or because a great evil will be unleashed on the world, or what? Smokey can’t leave the island because…why, exactly? > > The midichlorians in Star Wars sucked because they took something very cool - the idea of the Force, which was a powerful energy surrounding every living thing that could be manipulated and used, either for good or for bad - and gave it a stupid tacked-on pseudo-scientific explanation. In Lost, there was no cool concept to ruin. There’s just this island, where a bunch of weird stuff happened for no apparent reason, and then the characters all went to the afterlife together. Whoopee. I agree. I didn’t want a midichlorian explanation of the mysteries of LOST. I did, however, want what was lurking off-stage to be consistent, to have rules, to have some sort of purpose, _even if they didn’t explain it to the audience_. Unfortunately, the mysteries of LOST no longer feel coherent or organic; rather they feel like they were selected solely for the coolness at the moment without any regard of how it would all tie together, and indeed, the writers made no effort to do so. It’s almost as if there was a head writer during seasons 1-3 who came up with all this stuff, they fired him/her, and he/she left without telling anyone what it all was about. I know that didn’t happen, but that’s what it feels like. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/291 "2010-05-24T14:43:51Z")
> [@Jester](#): > > True, but when I say “it’s about the characters” that’s more or less what I mean; they were very even-handed in dealing with the plot that actually impacted their main characters. Everyone found out what they needed to know for their stories (for the most part), and nobody found out the Grand Secret of the Island because for them, that was never really the issue. I firmly disagree with you on this: We didn’t learn:[ul] [li]About the Other sterility, which was a major driving force for Juliet and Ben[/li][li]About the “Raised by another/An Other” prophecy which was a driving force for Claire[/li][li]Any motivation at all beyond “Bwah! I’m eee-vil! Bwah!” for Smoky–did he want to leave the island? Destroy the island? What was he trying to _do_? What was his motive? If he’s the Big Bad, it’s pretty important.[/li][li]Whidmore’s motives: What did he _want_? What were his plans? This is important to Whidmore, Ben, Penny and Desmond.[/li][li]Jacob’s motives: Why did he tag those people out of all the people in the world to be candidates? His given explanation doesn’t fit the facts in evidence: several of them _weren’t_ horrible losers who needed to reach out and touch other people (Hurley and Sayid, for two). [/li][/ul] And that’s just for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/292 "2010-05-24T14:47:59Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Actually, totally random thought that I actually considered starting a thread for in GQ: How exactly would Richard Alpert re-integrate into society? I am talking about basic logistical stuff like, how would you be able to open a bank account or get a job without a birth certificate, social security number, etc. Well, we did see him off the island when he recruited Juliet, so he must have some experience with modern life and travel. I guess he didn’t need a passport to travel on the Others submarine, but I suppose the Mittelos Biosciences company could sponsor him for a H-1B visa. That, of course, brings a whole slew of questions. How the hell did the Others run a business in the outside world? Was Jacob a stockholder? A chronically absent CEO? I think the writers got bored with Mittelos Biosciences and just conveniently forgot about it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/293 "2010-05-24T14:53:32Z")
> [@Meme\_Chose](#): > > Then what was with the debris on the beach? Heh. Maybe it’s because they’d been pimping it so hard, but I thought for sure that it was going to be Jimmy Kimmel strolling out onto the beach… > [@Kinthalis](#): > > Ok. We should tally up the endings for the cast, cause now as I see it desmond goes on to live out his life on the island and never gets to see penny while alive, but meets her in the afterlife after they both die I suppose. Sad ending for him. Katelives out her life without Jack and she mentions that she was waiting a long time for, so she probably dies an old woman. Who else gets a crummy ending? Not true. Ben even told Hurley that he could get Desmond home, somehow. People not getting to leave the island was Jacob’s rule, not the island’s. > [@Frylock](#): > > Wellbut, lots of things happened to lots of people in the ATL (including Sayid) that we have no reason to think Jack knew anything about. …but they all led back to Jack one way or another, right? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/294 "2010-05-24T14:53:32Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > While I hated the Hocus Pocus of the BSG finale, I liked this one. There are a great deal of interesting questions about the island and the various groups that have been there at one time or another but at it’s core, the show was about a group of people that left the island better people than they were when they arrived on it and I am okay with that. Except that they didn’t. Sayid stayed _exactly_ the same (or arguably got worse on the island). Hurley stayed mostly the same. Claire stayed mostly the same until she went feral. Kate stayed exactly the same–even down to her final act (shooting Smokey) being exactly the same crap (even if it worked out) that she did for the previous 5 seasons: Ignore what everyone else says and do whatever she feels like. Rose and Bernard got worse, not better: The smarmy “We don’t want any part of your drama, just leave us alone” thing was cute once–but repeating it a couple of times made them sound like dicks–especially if the consequences of Smokey getting off the island were as apocalyptic as they (sometimes) made it sound. What happened to “Live together or die alone”? Shannon stayed the same. Anna-Lucia and Libby stayed the same. Poor Locke probably stayed the same–he was a patsy for forces beyond his control and died from being a schnook who was desperately looking for something…_anything_ to believe in. (I hate that somewhere around season 3 or 4, they, IMO ruined Locke) Jack got better and so did Sawyer. And of the two, Sawyer is the only one who got any significant growth on his own. Jack didn’t grow until (presumably) Jacob ruined his post-Island life (why? I thought you got to choose if you wanted to be a candidate. O6 Jack didn’t have much of a choice) But that’s it: only two characters became better people as a result of their Island visit. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/295 "2010-05-24T14:57:15Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > And getting into “overthinking this” territory… am I the only one who was thinking, as the plane took off, that Lapidus is going to have a LOT of 'splainin to do? regarding the Ajira flight, and Kate is going to have a lot of explaining to do about where Sawyer and Claire came from? > > FAA official: So… Mr. Lapidus: you say the plane crashed, but you can’t tell us where? And you lost most of the passengers but you STILL can’t tell us where they were buried? And how did you happen to find these two survivors who’ve been listed as dead for 3+ years? Not only that, but the Oceanic 6 became pretty famous after their rescue. Then, 3 years later, _another_ flight disappears over the Pacific, and _5 of the Oceanic 6 are aboard that plane too!_ We never got to see anything off-island after the Ajira flight, but can you imagine the press coverage and public buzz over that? So, yeah, the folks who came back on that plane couldn’t possibly have led anything resembling normal lives after that. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/296 "2010-05-24T14:58:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Wellbut, lots of things happened to lots of people in the ATL (including Sayid) that we have no reason to think Jack knew anything about. I dunno if Jack had to **know** about specific events in the ATL in order to ‘experience’ them; perhaps they were, um, _provided_ to him. mmm ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/297 "2010-05-24T15:00:49Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > First off, cliff diving. I have cliff dived in Hawaii, although off a waterfall and not into the ocean. But never would I have, as a non-professional diver, dived HEAD FIRST into the ocean from a huge height into water possibly hiding rocky underwaters. (snip) I was watching that with my son and said to him,“you know, you can still swim to the boat with a broken leg. You can’t swim there with a broken neck” [Quote=fubbleskag] how long until JJ announces his 3d/imax Lost movie? [/Quote] You can see that they are already set up for it. Hurley’s comment to Ben about being a good #2. Kate saying to Jack that she’s missed him. On that island being dead doesn’t mean you can’t have a part with a lot of lines or action. In fact the whole purpose of a future movie could be an explanation as to **why** the alternate time line happened and **how** the island was able to grant it. Throw in the fact that there exists the possibility of going deeper into the background of the statue, the well, and the time shifting and the writers could crank out a decent plot in a matter of weeks. I’m thinking a trilogy movie deal isn’t beyond the scope of this thing. And it could take it’s place in cinematic history with Indiana Jones and Star Wars. If they introduce Harrison Ford into the mix then you can bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/298 "2010-05-24T15:20:38Z")
Hey Lost fans! Could y’all vote in my poll on whether I should watch this show now that it’s done? Hope you enjoyed last night. > **[Should I watch Lost?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=564353)** > > I love JJ Abrams, but I also hate him. I was really frustrated with how he finished “Alias”, and vowed not to invest my time in his shows until they were done to see if people were generally happy with the conclusion. So I’m creating this poll. If... ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/299 "2010-05-24T15:31:07Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Except that they didn’t. > > Sayid stayed _exactly_ the same (or arguably got worse on the island). > > Hurley stayed mostly the same. > > Claire stayed mostly the same until she went feral. > > Kate stayed exactly the same–even down to her final act (shooting Smokey) being exactly the same crap (even if it worked out) that she did for the previous 5 seasons: Ignore what everyone else says and do whatever she feels like. > > Rose and Bernard got worse, not better: The smarmy “We don’t want any part of your drama, just leave us alone” thing was cute once–but repeating it a couple of times made them sound like dicks–especially if the consequences of Smokey getting off the island were as apocalyptic as they (sometimes) made it sound. What happened to “Live together or die alone”? > > Shannon stayed the same. > > Anna-Lucia and Libby stayed the same. > > Poor Locke probably stayed the same–he was a patsy for forces beyond his control and died from being a schnook who was desperately looking for something…_anything_ to believe in. (I hate that somewhere around season 3 or 4, they, IMO ruined Locke) > > Jack got better and so did Sawyer. And of the two, Sawyer is the only one who got any significant growth on his own. Jack didn’t grow until (presumably) Jacob ruined his post-Island life (why? I thought you got to choose if you wanted to be a candidate. O6 Jack didn’t have much of a choice) > > But that’s it: only two characters became better people as a result of their Island visit. I would submit that Sayid learned he was more than a killer and was able to sacrifice himself for the rest of the group (I would have rather seen him have a happier ending but so it goes…). Hurley was lonely and essentially friendless and convinced he was cursed. (although we never did find out why they call him that…). Kate was on the run and closed off from the world. Claire—you may be right with Claire but at least she gets to keep her son whom she was planning to give away and she found she had a family she never knew. Charlie was a Junkie, Desmond gained the love of his life as did Juliet. Really the only one who clearly lost out was poor Locke who was a tragic figure in this story. But at least it looks like even he found peace. The finale was far from perfect but I had decided a while ago that I had to accept the show the creators were creating and not the show I necessarily wanted it to be and I found it a good ending. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/300 "2010-05-24T15:42:14Z")
> [@Jester](#): > > True, but when I say “it’s about the characters” that’s more or less what I mean; they were very even-handed in dealing with the plot that actually impacted their main characters. Everyone found out what they needed to know for their stories (for the most part), and nobody found out the Grand Secret of the Island because for them, that was never really the issue. > > Again, it’s the Force analogy: Luke doesn’t need to know where the Force comes from for it to impact his life; he just needs to learn how to wield it. And then twenty years later the midichlorians get tacked on and ruin everything, because it’s too much info, it’s lame, and it just wasn’t necessary. That’s how I would’ve felt had they tried to “explain” everything, mythology-wise. We got pieces of the puzzle, and they were the only ones that mattered to the characters. Sorry. I know what you meant. I was just using your comment as a launch point for my criticism of the writers. You were an innocent bystander, caught in the crossfire! 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=16)