# LOST 6.17 "The End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459 "2010-05-23T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/361 "2010-05-24T23:01:59Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](#): > > I assume the pseudo-mother of Jacob/MiB was both the protector and the smoke monster as intended. The chosen person goes into the light, becomes the weapon, and is trapped to the island. For whatever reason, she did not want that fate given to the person taking over the task (perhaps she didn’t fully understand it), so she killed real mom, and lied to the kids so they would not WANT to leave. When she passed on the chore to Jacob, she lost her smokey power and was killed by MiB. Had Jacob gone into the well, he would have become a “good” version of the smoke monster who would stay willingly and protect the island with his smokey powers until he found a replacement, but he inadvertently gave the powers to MiB who wanted to leave rather than protect Except that mommy told Jacob directly, “never ever go into the light cave”.. fate worse than death and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/362 "2010-05-24T23:25:10Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > And Terry O’Quinn alone deserves about 16 Emmys. As Smokey, he was genuinely menacing; as John Locke, he was warm and sympathetic. Two completely different characters, both played brilliantly. Absolutely, 100% total agreement. A truly great job. It will be a sad day if he doesn’t win one. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/363 "2010-05-24T23:44:37Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > but now that we know that the ATL was not a parallel universe alternate reality…what the hell exactly happened when Juliette banged the nuke with a rock? It blew them 3 years into the future, made a crater, but didn’t hurt anyone? My take on this is… first, it confirms Daniel’s “whatever happened, happened” rules of time travel. Meaning that “The Incident”, as it always happened, is what we saw. And what our Losties learned about first on the Swan orientation film, then later experienced from their own perspective. It always happened that way – they just saw/experienced it from a different perspective (out of order) in their own personal timelines. Given that, it means that clearly Radzinsky and Pierre Chang were still around afterwards, alive (but Chang with the busted arm, as seen in the Swan orientation vid) – so they survived “The Incident”. So to me the possibilities are: - the bomb went off, and was always part of The Incident. But either the blast was so far underground that its effects didn’t reach Chang, Radzinsky, etc on the surface – or the electromagnetic energy in that pocket somehow negated the “bomb” and radioactive effects of the blast, enough so that the surface folks weren’t hurt. Juliet and our Losties jumped forward in a time flash, perhaps triggered by the combination of the bomb and the energy pocket fighting it out? - or the bomb didn’t go off, and our Losties jumped forward in a time flash, related to the pocket of energy. Either way, our Losties jump forward (which includes all Losties from the original time jumps – like Rose and Bernard), the Dharmites seal up the site with concrete underneath, build the Swan, and change its intended purpose from research to the button-pushing protocol (perhaps they weren’t able to seal it up completely, hence the need to release the energy build-ups). ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/364 "2010-05-24T23:44:53Z")
Another thing that just occurred to me is imagine how much time people that followed the show spent sitting and thinking about what it all meant… People talked around water coolers at work, people wrote the Lostpedia, people wrote countless articles, blogs, and Straight Dope threads trying to figure it out. Probably thousands and thousands of hours… and it didn’t matter because there are no answers. The actual writers of the show didn’t think of any. Mega-bummer. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/365 "2010-05-24T23:48:07Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Or Desmond. Fake Mom said if you go down there it will be _worse than_ death. But it didn’t kill Desmond, or have any discernible permanent effect on him. Desmond was special, apparently immune to the electromagnetic energy beneath the island, which undoubtedly was abundant in the big light plug cave. Desmond probably acquired this nature when he was the guy to turn the failsafe key in the Swan, before the “sky turned purple”. > [@](#): > > And it appears that it didn’t do anything to Jack either except transport him inexplicably to a rock Yep, that’s the one that doesn’t seem consistent to me. He should have become smokified. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/366 "2010-05-24T23:48:10Z")
Lost finale draws only 13.1 million. [http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/05/tv-ratings-lost-finale-takes-off-for-abc-sunday.html](http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/05/tv-ratings-lost-finale-takes-off-for-abc-sunday.html) That’s the unders. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/367 "2010-05-24T23:48:24Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Except that mommy told Jacob directly, “never ever go into the light cave”.. fate worse than death and all that. But that was\* her\* rules. Maybe Jacob changed them. Yeah I got nothin. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/368 "2010-05-25T00:02:46Z")
That Jimmy Kimmel special was exactly what I needed. Can’t wait for Josh Holloway in Snakes on a Plane 2:Electric Boogaloo!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/369 "2010-05-25T00:06:02Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > Otherwise, I am just hoping they make a Sawyer/Milo cop drama, sans any references to Lost… I would watch a spin-off set during the three years Sawyer, Miles, Jin, and Juliet spent at the Dharma Initiative in the 70s. Sawyer as LaFleur, head of security with Miles as his trusted deputy (we can kill off Phil in the pilot episode). They should call it “Dharma Police.” ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/370 "2010-05-25T00:10:55Z")
> [@Jihi](#): > > If we accept the the remains on the beach over the ending credits as pertaining to the story proper there’s only one explanation. If we accept it as thematic of the initial crash then it’s simply representative of the show itself. what I noticed in that last shot of the wreckage on the beach was the obviously sorted piles of clothes, and the footprints leading away from the plane. It seemed like a clear message that they had survived the crash, and that the island stuff was real. Confirmation that only the flash sideways stuff was afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/371 "2010-05-25T00:33:13Z")
For their ability to craft an entertaining, dramatic hour (42 min) of TV, I give the creators a B+. For their ability to tell a story, they get a huge ugly **F**. As detailed by [Improvisor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12492652&postcount=340), [storyteller0910](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12492281&postcount=336), and so many others here. I don’t feel cheated as much as embarrassed for them. Re: **storyteller** ’s comments, my gripe is not just with the over-the-top not-naming of MIB, but that style throughout the whole thing. Overall, I would not recommend this series to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/372 "2010-05-25T00:43:04Z")
Is anyone else anxiously awaiting the re-imagined Lost series, due out on 4-D retinal holovisors in ~2042 ? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/373 "2010-05-25T00:45:01Z")
So, bear with me a moment… Those on the duct-taped plane - Lapidus, Miles, Kate, Sawyer - flew from the island, back to civilization, and went on to lead (relatively) normal lives? Say, for another 40-50 years or so? Is there a semi-consensus on this statement? And when the usual suspects were all gathered at churcheaven awaiting Jack’s appearance, does this indicate he was the last to die? If the above is to be accepted (and I’m asking, more than stating), what did Jack do, lay on the riverbank, dog-side, for decades before he joined the ranks of the pulse-less? mmm ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/374 "2010-05-25T00:49:12Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > And when the usual suspects were all gathered at churcheaven awaiting Jack’s appearance, does this indicate he was the last to die? No – he was in the sideways flashes throughout, just as long as the others were. And in the afterlife, time has no meaning anyways. In fact, his dad said as much – some died before him, some long after. Perhaps Jack was just the last of that immediate group that was ready to “let go”, or perhaps the last to realize where he was. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/375 "2010-05-25T00:51:55Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > So, bear with me a moment… > > Those on the duct-taped plane - Lapidus, Miles, Kate, Sawyer - flew from the island, back to civilization, and went on to lead (relatively) normal lives? Say, for another 40-50 years or so? > > Is there a semi-consensus on this statement? > > And when the usual suspects were all gathered at churcheaven awaiting Jack’s appearance, does this indicate he was the last to die? > > If the above is to be accepted (and I’m asking, more than stating), what did Jack do, lay on the riverbank, dog-side, for decades before he joined the ranks of the pulse-less? > > mmm His father told him that they were outside of time in Heaven’s lobby. He specifically said many died before and many later but the area they were in, the ATL was the same for all of them. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/376 "2010-05-25T01:05:57Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > Another thing that just occurred to me is imagine how much time people that followed the show spent sitting and thinking about what it all meant… People talked around water coolers at work, people wrote the Lostpedia, people wrote countless articles, blogs, and Straight Dope threads trying to figure it out. Probably thousands and thousands of hours… and it didn’t matter because there are no answers. The actual writers of the show didn’t think of any. Mega-bummer. This is a question that I have pondered many times regarding works of fiction. People sit around trying to “figure it out” as if it is some grand secret of the universe with an empirical truth to be gotten at, and that somehow, someday, we will find out the truth and see if we were right. But fiction has no truth. As you sit around trying to figure it out, you’re just doing the same thing the writers do. Someone is just dreaming all this shit up. So all you’re really doing is seeing if your imagination syncs up with the minds of the writers. You can dream it up too, and have the story however you want it in your own head. There’s nothing that says that the writers’ explanation of events is any better than your water-cooler version. Your answers are as good as theirs. Or, according to your post, their non-answers. Create your own alternate reality 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/377 "2010-05-25T01:15:13Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Except that mommy told Jacob directly, “never ever go into the light cave”.. fate worse than death and all that. Yes, but we know what that fate was… it turns you into a smoke monster, and appears to keep you trapped on the island, as evidenced by MiB. Perhaps for her, that was a fate worse than death? In any event, I presumed she knew from experience. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/378 "2010-05-25T01:57:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I liked it a lot and am surprised how people are popping in to say how bad it is. Many people have deflected the suckitude of the second half of this season - episodes that covered territory where there should’ve been real answers and meaning and there wasn’t, the most obvious case being _Across The Sea_ and explained that they trusted that the finale would make up for it. Nope, turns out that those episodes just sucked, there was never any sort of consistent idea by anyone, etc. The finale was basically the last chance to make the series into some sort of sensical story and failed. I mean - even the most basic question… imagine you just watched the (very good) season 1, and the show was cancelled. But you had the chance to ask the writers one question. It would be “so what was the island?”, right? And then you watched 5 more years of this show and still don’t know. That is just… silly. I mean - did we learn anything in this episode? Sure, stuff happened - but did we actually learn anything? We learned that the ATL was actually just a group hallucination and we about a third of the screen time this season on something that was inconsequential since nothing actually happened. Otherwise, did we learn one single thing? I mean, really - I don’t even know where to start with the criticism. And I probably won’t. I’ll probably save it for the “so, let’s look back at LOST as a series” threads rather than this episode thread. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/379 "2010-05-25T02:06:07Z")
> [@Meme\_Chose](#): > > Then what was with the debris on the beach? > [@Annie](#): > > Archaeological remains, basically. What was left of them all many years after the events took place. > [@Jihi](#): > > If we accept the the remains on the beach over the ending credits as pertaining to the story proper there’s only one explanation. If we accept it as thematic of the initial crash then it’s simply representative of the show itself. What debris on the beach? Maybe I’m seeing something different to you, but what I saw was Jack’s eye closing, fade to black, Lost logo, then Bad Robot. No closing credits, no plane debris, except as part of Jack’s flashback. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/380 "2010-05-25T02:13:32Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Also where are Michael and walt? The ghost of Michael is whispering in the jungle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=20)