# LOST 6.17 "The End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459 "2010-05-23T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/401 "2010-05-25T12:08:02Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Except that mommy told Jacob directly, “never ever go into the light cave”.. fate worse than death and all that. Agreed. I think Smokey is a separate entity, and anyone going into the light cave gets absorbed into Smokey somehow. It wouldn’t make sense for Mother to also be Smokey (why would she manifest as Claudia and rat herself out). I’m actually OK with Desmond not getting smokified - he’s proven to be immune to whatever Power is going on. And I’m OK with Jack not smoking either - he was a) already mortally wounded, and b) maybe it’s something about entering the cave while the lights are on that does it (they were off when he went in). ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/402 "2010-05-25T12:27:37Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](#): > > The island makes passing on to the after-life possible. The light is a physical manifestation of the “soul”. Perhaps the island is also the mechanism by which an individual’s limbo is manifested. In other words, the island is basically the server room that houses soul data and provides the ATL space which holds people in limbo until they are ready to move on. (I’m reaching on this paragraph. There’s not much to support it, but it makes some sense given the background) > > Pulling the plug looked a little like opening the door to hell. As if the stopper was keeping the souls that haven’t moved on from being sucked into oblivion. If that’s right, hopefully nobody was condemned to eternal damnation while the stopper was out. > > The island, for obvious reasons, needs to be protected. I think the “smoke monster” is the power given to the chosen protector to make him/her an effective weapon. It makes sense therefore, that the protector cannot leave the island, and so the smoke monster is prevented from leaving the island. Scientifically, it is contained by some electromagnetic mumbo-jumbo, which Darma was able to recreate in the form of the barriers around the camp. > > I assume the pseudo-mother of Jacob/MiB was both the protector and the smoke monster as intended. The chosen person goes into the light, becomes the weapon, and is trapped to the island. For whatever reason, she did not want that fate given to the person taking over the task (perhaps she didn’t fully understand it), so she killed real mom, and lied to the kids so they would not WANT to leave. When she passed on the chore to Jacob, she lost her smokey power and was killed by MiB. Had Jacob gone into the well, he would have become a “good” version of the smoke monster who would stay willingly and protect the island with his smokey powers until he found a replacement, but he inadvertently gave the powers to MiB who wanted to leave rather than protect – leading to their epic struggle. This sort of explains why Jacob was able to leave the island at will, but MiB was stuck. > > The island appears to have some tricks of its own to protect the inhabitant – healing, for one, being nearly invisible to the outside world as another. Perhaps no new births as yet another (to prevent people from settling there). > > Unfortunately, this doesn’t explain why Jack was not turned into the next smoke monster when he came in contact with the well water.. Can’t rectify that one. I am really digging this, powers split and fates intertwined. That would’ve been cool. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/403 "2010-05-25T12:33:32Z")
New question: was the light emanating from the cave the same as the light coming through the doors at the afterlife lobby? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/404 "2010-05-25T12:41:32Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > It wouldn’t make sense for Mother to also be Smokey (why would she manifest as Claudia and rat herself out). Claudia was actually a ghost. We’re able to tell who is a ghost and who is smoky on Lost by who can see them. Only certain people can see ghosts. Everyone can see smoky. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/405 "2010-05-25T13:17:19Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > New question: was the light emanating from the cave the same as the light coming through the doors at the afterlife lobby? I don’t see any indication that it is, so I have to go with “no”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/406 "2010-05-25T13:42:15Z")
> [@Long Time Lurker](#): > > Unfortunately, this doesn’t explain why Jack was not turned into the next smoke monster when he came in contact with the well water.. Can’t rectify that one. Nothing personal, as I’m not bashing your theory, but I can’t resist this set-up… “Rectify”? Is that when you pull an explanation out of your ass? 😃 Well, I’ll put myself in the camp of those that gave this a thumbs down. I still liked the series, but what a goofy ending. I’m sure they’re going to say there’s no one explanation and everyone should take out of it what they will. But that’s just sloppy writing, meaning they didn’t have any particular idea of what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/407 "2010-05-25T13:53:19Z")
I want to know how Marcellus Wallace’s soul got to the island all those thousands of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![LunarPlexus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LunarPlexus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LunarPlexus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/408 "2010-05-25T13:58:22Z")
I went in with the attitude that I was OK with not getting all the answers. I decided to enjoy whatever the writers manipulated me into feeling. I loved this series. What happened, happened. I expected to cry; I didn’t expect to sob for 105 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/409 "2010-05-25T14:36:40Z")
> [@Nature\_s\_Call](#): > > …When I crack open a murder mystery, I fully know there is a pre-chosen answer to the question “Who done it?” It is such a well known story telling device that we actually call such a mystery a whodunnit! As I’m reading I know full well the author’s making the shit up - but she’s invited me to play along in finding the answer to that essential question. If I get to the end of the book and do not find out who actually done it, I’m entitled to feel cheated. With LOST we were invited to play along, to consider the possible answers to MANY questions. That’s the storytelling device they chose!..Many (not all, I agree) of the LOST questions are critical to answer if we are to understand what the hell the whole thing was all about. Good point, I can’t disagree. I can’t say I feel “cheated” although I do think the writers punted on the basic question of what would have happened if MiB had made it off the island, and why. (I’ll add that the original MiB’s motivation for wanting to leave, when he was among the other people who had come to the island, may have been different than the motivation of Smokey/FLocke. In his younger days, MiB seemed to just want to go back to be with people and get away from Mom. Later it seemed that he wanted to wreak some kind of havoc.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/410 "2010-05-25T14:43:23Z")
I’ve tried to write this a few times but I can’t seem to put into words exactly what I’m thinking. This will probably come out wrong as well. I’m going to go with the “What happened, happened” rule. Christian reiterated it in the finale. He also said, “There is no now”. The island, from the very beginning seemed to have a problem with the normal flow of time. It was always a little “unstuck” in time. People on the island can be a little unstuck in time as well. Some people are more aware of this “unstuck” property than others; Desmond, for instance. Some people, like Jacob and MiB, can, to some extent, manipulate this unstuckness. So, the events on the island and the events in the ATL all really happened. It’s just that, for most of them, the two timelines were completely separate memorywise. Only Desmond had a sense of both timelines at the same time. The final scene in the church occurs when all the ‘island’ timelines are ended by the fact that the last person has died (maybe one of the kids Cindy had with her) and is simply Desmond getting everyone together to ‘merge’ the two timelines. In my mind, they all get up and wander out of the church to resume life in the ATL. As for the mechanism for all this, we don’t get to know. The one central feature of the island is the glowing light and we will never know what that is, whether it is mystical or magical or some advanced alien technology. Everything else on the island was brought or built by humans who came to the island to explore it’s mysteries but who had no more clue as to the true nature of the island then we do. All we get to see are it’s effects. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/411 "2010-05-25T15:05:36Z")
Maybe I missed it, but did they explain why Jack passed the baton on to Hurley? I mean, Jack had to be the shortest lived Island Protector everrrrrrrr. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/412 "2010-05-25T15:09:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but did they explain why Jack passed the baton on to Hurley? I mean, Jack had to be the shortest lived Island Protector everrrrrrrr. By that point, Flocke had gut-stabbed Jack, and Jack knew he was dying. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/413 "2010-05-25T15:17:45Z")
> [@HumeOrMe](#): > > Just watched DVR of finale. Haven’t read others opinions, so this is a pretty raw reaction. The only way I can resolve this story is that this entire series is a narrative imagined by Jack in the last nanoseconds of his life. Your life and and “what could have been” your life flashing before you. He’s an emotional but mostly rational and really smart guy dying in a plane crash in the last seconds of his life. He sees all of these faces around him and none are familiar, so he imagines what kind of people they are. Subconsciously, each face manifests itself an aspect of his personality or external force in his dying dream. The human backgammon battle here and the secret bathtub plug there are picoseconds of an imaginary reality on the island all borne out as a product of his internal struggles. These last blinks of life are being played out by the faces of the mass of humanity he sees around him in the instant of his death ala Kaiser Soze. When those faces don’t exist, he creates them in his own imagination. 3 Much like the way Walt imagination seems to create reality from what he is thinking at the moment. > There is no question in my mind that Jack died on Oceanic 815 before he even opened his eye the first time. That is the point where breaks in real logic, physics, and science began. We are following along through Jack’s last thoughts as he scribbles his dying inspirations on the back of a spiral notebook. It is a wonderful, emotional, illogical story that Jack has given us. I am glad I came along for the ride. No. Come on now. I don’t understand why people are trying to make this more complicated than it is. The final shot of Jack’s eye was simply as a visual bookend to how the show first began. The whole series was not some instantaneous imaginary flash in Jack’s mind before his died. :rolleyes: That’s just… stupid. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/414 "2010-05-25T15:50:20Z")
Just finished watching it last night and finally caught up on the thread here. I’m firmly in the “great ending” camp. The island turned out to be a real place (not the purgatory or hell cop-out that many expected), the alt-timeline was a shared afterlife of a sort, bound together by the fact that the crash of Oceanic 815 on the island was the most significant event in their lives (sort of like the ending to Titanic, where Rose, upon dying, finds herself reunited with all the Titanic victims). Plenty of tear-jerker moments, loved the fact that Sun and Jin got a better last scene than their death in the submarine. At first I thought of the whole alt-timeline to have been a total waste, because it was introduced this season, and served no purpose other than for itself. But then I realized it did - Desmond knew of it, and that’s what motivated him to pop the cork on the island. Clearly, the “light” of the cave is some sort of fusion of soul and electromagnetism, allowing Desmond to sense the afterlife, even though he didn’t fully understand what it was. The one thing that I really felt they did wrong by not explaining was the Island’s connection to ancient Egypt - statue of Egyptiant goddess, heiroglyphics everywhere, including one depicting the smoke monster - I was expecting to discover that “Mom” (from two episodes ago) was that goddess or a descendant or reincarnation of her, and that all the significant Losties are descended/reincarnated from Egyptian dieties as well. Ah well. Still, an excellent series wrap-up, both emotional and not cop-out-ish. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/415 "2010-05-25T15:53:21Z")
I enjoyed the ending. It wasn’t perfect, but it was satisfying. Most of what I would say has already been said in this thread, so I won’t rehash. But I am glad I spent the last 6 years watching the show. Thanks, Lost! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/416 "2010-05-25T15:53:22Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > The one thing that I really felt they did wrong by not explaining was the Island’s connection to ancient Egypt I assume the Island has had many things happen on it and it has an old history. I am surprised they didn’t have an episode that showed various key moments over it’s huge history. Would have been a cool episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/417 "2010-05-25T16:03:52Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Just finished watching it last night and finally caught up on the thread here. > > I’m firmly in the “great ending” camp. The island turned out to be a real place (not the purgatory or hell cop-out that many expected), the alt-timeline was a shared afterlife of a sort, bound together by the fact that the crash of Oceanic 815 on the island was the most significant event in their lives (sort of like the ending to Titanic, where Rose, upon dying, finds herself reunited with all the Titanic victims). Plenty of tear-jerker moments, loved the fact that Sun and Jin got a better last scene than their death in the submarine. > > At first I thought of the whole alt-timeline to have been a total waste, because it was introduced this season, and served no purpose other than for itself. But then I realized it did - Desmond knew of it, and that’s what motivated him to pop the cork on the island. Clearly, the “light” of the cave is some sort of fusion of soul and electromagnetism, allowing Desmond to sense the afterlife, even though he didn’t fully understand what it was. > > The one thing that I really felt they did wrong by not explaining was the Island’s connection to ancient Egypt - statue of Egyptiant goddess, heiroglyphics everywhere, including one depicting the smoke monster - I was expecting to discover that “Mom” (from two episodes ago) was that goddess or a descendant or reincarnation of her, and that all the significant Losties are descended/reincarnated from Egyptian dieties as well. Ah well. > > Still, an excellent series wrap-up, both emotional and not cop-out-ish. We can guess a little about why the hieroglyphics were there. MiB and Jacob were the children of a Latin speaking woman who washed up on shore. This suggests that the island used to be in the Mediterranean. From what we know, the island couldn’t move until the MiB built the wheel, so most likely the island was in one place until some time after the events of Across the Sea. If so, the Egyptians were probably the first to find it, and the first to set up the guardians of the light. We also know that the guardian can set the rules for how easy it is to get to the island. So getting the materials and manpower to build the temple and statue wouldn’t be a problem with a friendly guardian. At some point the island gets depopulated and Mommy takes over. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/418 "2010-05-25T16:34:33Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I assume the Island has had many things happen on it and it has an old history. I am surprised they didn’t have an episode that showed various key moments over it’s huge history. Would have been a cool episode. Yeah, I would like to have seen when Island Protector Og makes some scratches on a cave wall. Maybe 4 slashes, then 8, then 15, 16. Then Og scratches his head-- he can’t count any higher than 20 (fingers plus toes). ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/419 "2010-05-25T16:44:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Rectify”? Is that when you pull an explanation out of your ass? 😃 Yes, but I assure you I cleaned it off first. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/420 "2010-05-25T16:54:08Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No. Come on now. I don’t understand why people are trying to make this more complicated than it is. The final shot of Jack’s eye was simply as a visual bookend to how the show first began. The whole series was not some instantaneous imaginary flash in Jack’s mind before his died. :rolleyes: That’s just… stupid. seriously… a multi-year TV show would never end with a [scene implying the entire show was imagined](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elsewhere#Final_episode)… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=22)