# LOST 6.17 "The End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459 "2010-05-23T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/441 "2010-05-26T00:53:20Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No. Come on now. I don’t understand why people are trying to make this more complicated than it is. The final shot of Jack’s eye was simply as a visual bookend to how the show first began. The whole series was not some instantaneous imaginary flash in Jack’s mind before his died. :rolleyes: That’s just… stupid. I’ve read that the writers are fans of Alan Moore’s graphic novel, _The Watchmen_. Moore employs a similar visual bookend style. I believe this claim, as it seemed obvious that as many times as this series opened on someone’s eye that it would close on someone’s eye. I always assumed it would be Jack. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > What does it mean if you are in the ATL, but get killed there? Like Keamy and Mikhail? Too evil to be allowed to “move on”? Maybe that’s why Sayid gets a “Get Out of ATL Free” card, because those guys needed killing. I doubt the people killed in the sideways were really there. Likely just apparitions representing bad guys drawn from the main characters’ memories. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/442 "2010-05-26T01:37:59Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Constants. Is soulmate just another name for a constant? > > Remember constants? I barely do, but that was pretty big there for a while. Well, since Daniel said that Desmond was _his_ constant I don’t know about the soulmate thing… they implied that Daniel had a thing for Charlotte. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/443 "2010-05-26T03:11:08Z")
[Remaining questions](http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291) Looking at that, the writing and direction and style and editing (and, from what I understand, material released by the writing staff & production company) for some of those said “This is important,” not just as a way of illuminating a personality or six, but important in and of itself. For them to now claim “nope, couldn’t you tell - it was all about the characters” is crap. The farther I get away from the finale, the worse the series seems to me as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/444 "2010-05-26T03:33:53Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Constants. Is soulmate just another name for a constant? > > Remember constants? I barely do, but that was pretty big there for a while. Constants were an analogy to math and physics that Daniel came up with. It is something that is always the same no matter what weirdness you are going through, an anchor. Not necessarily a soulmate, but it just so happens that with Desmond and Penny that was the case. Daniel counted on Desmond to go back in time to see him at Oxford, and to bring back information from the future, so he was Daniel’s constant, though not quite in the same way that Penny was Desmond’s. The whole “constant” thing was really a literary device to bring Desmond’s time-traveling consciousness to a conclusion where he reunited with Penny on the phone, and pretty much discarded after that. ---
**Author:** ![canadiankorean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2bfe46/32.png) [@canadiankorean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canadiankorean)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/445 "2010-05-26T04:22:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What debris on the beach? Maybe I’m seeing something different to you, but what I saw was Jack’s eye closing, fade to black, Lost logo, then Bad Robot. No closing credits, no plane debris, except as part of Jack’s flashback. Here are pics of the debris. > **[ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](https://imageshack.com/)** > > Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile. > **[ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](https://imageshack.com/)** > > Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile. > **[ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](https://imageshack.com/)** > > Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/446 "2010-05-26T07:06:06Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > P.S. I call bullshit on the assertion that they conceived the ending right after the pilot and that’s how come it’s only Season 1 people there. Interesting theory in that article. Although he definitely had it wrong on the “only Season 1 people there” bit: Desmond – Season 2 Penny – Season 2 Libby – Season 2 Juliet – Season 3 All of these were in the church. The latter two because they were the love interests of two of the main Losties (Hurley and Sawyer). But definitely not only season 1 folks there. > [@jackdavinci](#): > > The “help me” voice, the eye, Christian, etc in the cabin were all MIB Except that when Hurley was looking through the peephole (which was a _different_ cabin incident than “Help Me”, at which only Ben and Locke were present), he was looking at Christian sitting in the chair when the face with the eye showed up at close range – while Christian was still sitting in the chair. > [@jackdavinci](#): > > MIB’s name was Samuel which means “man of God” I’d read somewhere previously that this was the name used in the casting call when they were casting for that role – whether it was actually planned as the real name of the character? Who knows – they’ve been known to use codenames before (Frozen Donkey Wheel anyone?) > [@jackdavinci](#): > > Just that it was the sort of plot device that they had promised never to use. If you mean the “sideways is the afterlife” thing – seems like one of those “Slick Willie” style exact phrasing things. As I recall, they’d only promised that the island was not purgatory (which it wasn’t). I have two coins that add up to 30 cents and one of them isn’t a nickel… > [@jackdavinci](#): > > And it seems clear that there existed a smoky before MIB given the heiroglyphs in the temple… Oooh. Very good point. Assuming of course that the Temple (and statue) were around before Jacob and MIB. Since that was all Egyptian, probably a pretty reasonable assumption. > [@kath94](#): > > Why did he feel compelled to “fake” find Oceanic 815 with all souls aboard lost? So that the rest of the world would not look for flight 815 and accidentally find the island, which he wanted to reclaim for himself (along with getting Ben). ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/447 "2010-05-26T07:08:58Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > [Remaining questions](http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291) I have an answer to one of the questions mentioned in that video. Specifically, the bit about Jacob’s dying words being “They’re coming” (i.e. what he meant). The moment he said that, I’d said that he meant our Losties (which in hindsight happened to be the remaining candidates, assuming that “Kwon” meant Jin) returning to the present time – back to the future from 1977 Dharma. Then in the season 6 premiere, sure enough, they came back to the present island time. I’m 99% sure that’s who Jacob meant by “They’re coming”. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/448 "2010-05-26T09:30:55Z")
Always late to the party, we finally just got to watch it. I got to Page 6 in reading this thread but wanted to chime in my comments. Emotionally satisfying while intellectually unsatisfying, but I don’t know that they could have ever satisfied me intellectually, and I still enjoyed the show. Spiritually, this is what I’m thinking… As in life, we often don’t know what motivates other people, and sometimes we don’t even know what motivates ourselves. Sometimes we have convictions based on vapor (be it lies, mistakes, fears, biases) and we fall on our faces when we try to stand on them. Sometimes we are convinced that something is impossible or will hurt and we don’t even try, when we probably could have succeeded or found a reward that is worth it had we taken the opportunity instead. Forgiveness, love, empathy, and knowing when to let go are desirable traits to have in life, especially upon reflection of life. Cumbaya. Etc, etc. Like picking bits out of my teeth after a good meal, taken in isolation each bit of steak stuck between my molars is an annoyance, just like mulling over each unresolved stub is an annoyance, but the those minor annoyances have me contemplating the meal long after it is over. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/449 "2010-05-26T12:11:28Z")
> [@canadiankorean](#): > > Here are pics of the debris. > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img709.imageshack.us/i/lostwreckage.jpg/) > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img96.imageshack.us/i/lostwreckage1.jpg/) > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img707.imageshack.us/i/lostwreckage2.jpg/) I’m not sure why everyone is hung up on the wreckage in the last shot. This is what the beach looked like after Jack died (maybe decades or centuries after). Of course it was deserted. Nobody from the plane was left except Hurley, and he wasn’t going to hang out in the wreckage. ---
**Author:** ![Yossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@Yossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yossarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/450 "2010-05-26T12:21:39Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’m not sure why everyone is hung up on the wreckage in the last shot. Especially since it wasn’t officially part of the show (as written by the writers), but tacked-on by ABC as a “buffer” before the evening news: [http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00032758.html](http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00032758.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/451 "2010-05-26T13:36:58Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Agreed. I think Smokey is a separate entity, and anyone going into the light cave gets absorbed into Smokey somehow. It wouldn’t make sense for Mother to also be Smokey (why would she manifest as Claudia and rat herself out). > > I’m actually OK with Desmond not getting smokified - he’s proven to be immune to whatever Power is going on. And I’m OK with Jack not smoking either - he was a) already mortally wounded, and b) maybe it’s something about entering the cave while the lights are on that does it (they were off when he went in). Maybe it was just a light trick, but when I re-watched this last night, I thought I saw Jack starting to Smokify while he was lying in the pool after he put the stopper back in. That would also explain how he found himself passed out, upstream from the cave. Smikified, but dying. Check it out if you have it recorded. BTW, on this viewing, I liked the ending a lot better. I think they did a pretty decent job wrapping things up. But not quite sure why Aaron was there in baybay form… ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/452 "2010-05-26T13:45:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it was just a light trick, but when I re-watched this last night, I thought I saw Jack starting to Smokify while he was lying in the pool after he put the stopper back in. That would also explain how he found himself passed out, upstream from the cave. Smikified, but dying. Check it out if you have it recorded. > > BTW, on this viewing, I liked the ending a lot better. I think they did a pretty decent job wrapping things up. But not quite sure why Aaron was there in baybay form… I’ll have to re-view the stopper scene. Aaron as baby in the church: that’s how Jack knew him during the most tumultuous part of the series (i.e. while on the island). Nobody else looked any older either, and as Christian said, some of them died much later. I think our view of everyone was how Jack knew them… if it were a Claire-centric episode we’d see older Aaron; if it were a Penny-centric episode we’d see baby Charles etc. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/453 "2010-05-26T13:48:02Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’m not sure why everyone is hung up on the wreckage in the last shot. This is what the beach looked like after Jack died (maybe decades or centuries after). Of course it was deserted. Nobody from the plane was left except Hurley, and he wasn’t going to hang out in the wreckage. Well I see from the link provided by Yossarian, that the image of the wreckage wasn’t part of the show. But the assertion that it was the wreckage after the events of the show by you and others forgets the fact that in the show they explained that the wreckage fell into the ocean due to waves eroding the beach. Remember, they worked in the explanation to get around the fact that the producers wanted to stop removing and resetting the wreckage between seasons to save budget. -rainy ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/454 "2010-05-26T13:59:23Z")
Did we ever see a Locke-to-Smoke effect, or was it always offscreen? ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/455 "2010-05-26T14:08:06Z")
Okay, it’s taken me a while but I think I have come to terms with the finale. Amongst my group of friends who watch and discuss LOST, there are a couple who have voiced the opinion that the last couple have seasons have declined in quality - one going so far as to declare LOST now sucks (pre-finale). Interestingly, the “LOST sucks” camp loved the finale and felt it redeemed the show. I generally agreed with the decline in quality, but leading up to the finale I would defend the show against accusations of suckitude: “Yeah, ‘Across the Sea’ was machine-gun-fire exposition, but it clears the way for the 2½ hour finale. We won’t have to waste time dealing with (for example) the Jacob/MIB origin.” Essentially I was holding my breath. There have been great movies that have taken place in less than 2½ hours (less commercials) of screen time. What a wonderous event the finale will be when it doesn’t have to spend time on development and can spend more of its time on resolution and climax. So my initial reaction to the finale exemplifies the old saw “expectation is the root of all heartache.” I placed high - very high - expectations on the finale to deliver “the carrot” I mentioned upthread, at least in some form. When my expectations were not met, I declared that the finale sucked and went so far as to say it painted its suckness backwards across the whole experience. What started challenging that assertion for me was when a cow-orker asked me, “I haven’t seen the show. Now that it’s over - in your opinion - should I watch it?” I was about to knee-jerk a “No way, what’s the point?” But on reflection - I really enjoyed watching the show. It WAS a fun ride, and there WERE moments of brilliance. I still maintain the finale (and the final season) was a lost opportunity to satisfy plot-based expecations while still honour the “oh, it’s a character show” intent. I hope future writers/producers take LOST as a cautionary tale: if you’re going to weave an epic mythology, keep your eye on the coherence/consistency ball - and for Og’s sake make a plan! If The Shield can do it, so LOST could have! Having said that, what was the LOST experience? Great acting, great cinematography, wonderful music, stunning visuals, compelling characters with fascinating stories, delicious intrigue laced with deft cons and power struggles, I could go on. If the worst I can say is “it had too many plot holes” is that enough to taint all the good stuff? As someone mentioned upthread (paraphrased) “the finale was a wonderful ending to a different show.” I concur, it was a wonderful ending - just not the ending I was hoping for. So I will try to get over my expecations, my sense of being cheated at the lost opportunities. I will try to enjoy it for what it was, dismiss the flaws. Perhaps the flaws were in part the consequences of the fact that the creative team didn’t know from the start whether the show would last this long, the writer’s strike, the struggle with the network execs to stretch the show longer than the writers would prefer, and the writer’s surprise that their audience would pay so close attention to details as we did. I am still affected by the show days after the finale. The giddy anticipation I had leading up to the finale, and the fun I had watching week to week, these have to count for something, right? In the end they got right way more than they got wrong. From that perspective I find I have been nit-picky (well, the plot holes/etc. are bigger than nits… no I can’t completely let that go). The show was better than most and I’m glad I watched it. ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/456 "2010-05-26T14:11:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > BTW, on this viewing, I liked the ending a lot better. I think they did a pretty decent job wrapping things up. But not quite sure why Aaron was there in baybay form… It’s probably more for the benefit of the audience. Instead of spending time introducing a new actor as all-growed-up-Aaron, we see a baby in Claire’s arms and we know Aaron made it to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/457 "2010-05-26T14:25:08Z")
Nature’s Call, I’m glad you’ve come to feel the good outweighed the bad. I do understand some people are bitter they didn’t get all the answers. But I haven’t been able to watch consistently, got kind of lost myself, and finally just decided to enjoy what I did see, on the screen, for what it was. A reviewer at Slate was NOT happy with the ending and wonders ‘where was Alex and Karl in the church? Why not them, huh?’ lol. ---
**Author:** ![brix11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c37758/32.png) [@brix11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brix11)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/458 "2010-05-26T14:29:40Z")
[This recap](http://jezebel.com/5546559/lost-finale-recap-case-closed) suggests some answers that connected many dots for me. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/459 "2010-05-26T16:00:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but did they explain why Jack passed the baton on to Hurley? I mean, Jack had to be the shortest lived Island Protector everrrrrrrr. > [@VunderBob](#): > > By that point, Flocke had gut-stabbed Jack, and Jack knew he was dying. That is inconsistent, though. It’s not like Jack’s stab wound was worse than Locke’s gunshot wound, and the island healed Locke no problem. Why couldn’t it heal Jack just like it healed Locke? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/460 "2010-05-26T16:04:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That is inconsistent, though. It’s not like Jack’s stab wound was worse than Locke’s gunshot wound, and the island healed Locke no problem. Why couldn’t it heal Jack just like it healed Locke? Did Jack ever even know about the healing power? I don’t think he knew Locke had been in a wheelchair before the crash. I’m not sure he knew that Ben had shot Locke. I’m not sure he knew about Rose’s cancer either. In any case - he knew he was mortal at that point because the island had been “turned off” (allowing him to kill MIBLocke, so he likely figured it was a safe bet that he was going to die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=24)