# LOST 6.17 "The End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459 "2010-05-23T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/461 "2010-05-26T16:09:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it was just a light trick, but when I re-watched this last night, I thought I saw Jack starting to Smokify while he was lying in the pool after he put the stopper back in. That would also explain how he found himself passed out, upstream from the cave. Smikified, but dying. Check it out if you have it recorded. > > BTW, on this viewing, I liked the ending a lot better. I think they did a pretty decent job wrapping things up. But not quite sure why Aaron was there in baybay form… I thought I saw that, too. My WAG, Jack was already mortally wounded so the smokifying did not stick and/or Jack’s motives were good and selfless as opposed to MIB and he had accepted his fate so the smokifying didn’t take. Remember, the only one whose word we have on the “fate worse than death” outcome if you go into the cave is Crazy Foster Mom the Murderer who just wanted the boys to stay and protect the island, not exactly a trustworthy person. There were probably loopholes she either didn’t know about or didn’t tell them about. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/462 "2010-05-26T16:16:45Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > …I think our view of everyone was how Jack knew them… if it were a Claire-centric episode we’d see older Aaron; if it were a Penny-centric episode we’d see baby Charles etc. Frankly, I think that it was how the _audience_ viewed them, for the sake of the narrative. You don’t to smack the audience with new plot/character development when you’re trying to shut down. > [@rainy](#): > > …the assertion that it was the wreckage after the events of the show by you and others forgets the fact that in the show they explained that the wreckage fell into the ocean due to waves eroding the beach. Remember, they worked in the explanation to get around the fact that the producers wanted to stop removing and resetting the wreckage between seasons to save budget. Actually, I either forgot that, or missed it in the first place. When was that explanation made? > [@Frylock](#): > > Did we ever see a Locke-to-Smoke effect, or was it always offscreen? Never saw it, going either way. I’m just as happy that they didn’t try to show it, because some things are best left to the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/463 "2010-05-26T16:21:06Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Did Jack ever even know about the healing power? I don’t think he knew Locke had been in a wheelchair before the crash. I’m not sure he knew that Ben had shot Locke. I’m not sure he knew about Rose’s cancer either. Then again, Jacob inexplicably died by stabbing too, so that island healing power works great except, apparently, on the people most important to the island. There could be a satisfying explanation for why the island didn’t heal Jacob or Jack or Jacob’s mom, for that matter. I’m not seeing it; anyone else want to take a crack at it? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/464 "2010-05-26T16:26:03Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That is inconsistent, though. It’s not like Jack’s stab wound was worse than Locke’s gunshot wound, and the island healed Locke no problem. Why couldn’t it heal Jack just like it healed Locke? You can’t tell which particular wound is worse than another just by looking at the bloodstain on the shirt on TV. Locke may have been very lucky and had his bullet push his intestines or whatever out of the way, Jack may have had his intestines sliced in half, or his stomach ruptured, or a major artery nicked, or whatever. Also, the island was done with him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/465 "2010-05-26T16:27:13Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Then again, Jacob inexplicably died by stabbing too, so that island healing power works great except, apparently, on the people most important to the island. > > There could be a satisfying explanation for why the island didn’t heal Jacob or Jack or Jacob’s mom, for that matter. I’m not seeing it; anyone else want to take a crack at it? Maybe the island only heals people that it isn’t “done with” yet. Same reason certain people can’t die, like when Michael tried and failed to kill himself. Once your purpose on the island has been fulfilled, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/466 "2010-05-26T16:31:30Z")
But isn’t the agency of the island handled by the protector? Meaning it was Jacob who prevented Michael from killing himself on behalf of the island? Or is the island itself a conscious entity? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/467 "2010-05-26T16:37:17Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I thought I saw that, too. My WAG, Jack was already mortally wounded so the smokifying did not stick and/or Jack’s motives were good and selfless as opposed to MIB and he had accepted his fate so the smokifying didn’t take. The Smokifying I saw was rather “weak”, so maybe. > [@](#): > > Remember, the only one whose word we have on the “fate worse than death” outcome if you go into the cave is Crazy Foster Mom the Murderer who just wanted the boys to stay and protect the island, not exactly a trustworthy person. There were probably loopholes she either didn’t know about or didn’t tell them about. Well, we saw MIB get Smokified, so we know it’s possible. He was also pretty hurt. I’m wondering if Mommy Dearest Smokified herself in order to destroy the encampment. There obviously was a Smoke Monster, since it was able to conjure up Claudia. But why would that Smoke Monster want to destroy the encampment? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/468 "2010-05-26T16:38:02Z")
My 2 pence worth This echos a few ideas previously brought out in the thread. 1. The “fate worse than death” was being the island protector. Notice MD says “Thank you.” when killed by NoName 2. The smoke monster is a power of the guardian but is limited to the island. That how MD killed NoNames friends and got him out of the well. (“She broke my donkey wheel.”) 3. The guardian is to go into the well and absorb the smoke. MD would have explained this to Jacob is she didn’t have an unfortunate case of death. I don’t know why she didn’t explain it at the time of the quickening or whatever that ceremony was. Since NoName was not the guardian, it released ScHmoky McSchmokerson. 3a) What was the smoke? The best I can think of is rational evil. Notice that a lot of the “evil” acts of the Losties were rationalized away. The evil MD did was very reasoned. Kill the mom so she has her heirs, kill the villagers to stop NoName. If it were reduced down to a moral philosophy I would say the evil inherent in Utilitarianism. I think this explains why those particular “broken” people were chosen as candidates. They had the best balance of utilitarian evil whereas others like Ben and Widmore were scratched off the list when they were found to be out of balance. 3b) So what’s the deal with getting off the island? Schmoky could only leave by destroying the island and the only way to do that would release shall we say irrational evil - evil for evil sake like Hitlerish evil. I still think the whole I need to leave the island was a carryover from NoName’s soul but the net effect was the same, the light would be put out. 1. What is in the cave? Holy water or it’s equivalent to stopper in the evil. I think that smoky was there after Flocke died but remember that it is a CONTROLLED evil. We wouldn’t see it unless Jack used it and he was ready to die anyways. Remember how it only ends once? Because the Guardian and Schmoky being separate was an aberation and when it ends, they are joined like they should be. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/469 "2010-05-26T16:40:57Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That is inconsistent, though. It’s not like Jack’s stab wound was worse than Locke’s gunshot wound, and the island healed Locke no problem. Why couldn’t it heal Jack just like it healed Locke? Probably the same reason that it didn’t heal Jacob’s fatal stab wound. Whatever that was. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/470 "2010-05-26T16:49:28Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Then again, Jacob inexplicably died by stabbing too, so that island healing power works great except, apparently, on the people most important to the island. > > There could be a satisfying explanation for why the island didn’t heal Jacob or Jack or Jacob’s mom, for that matter. I’m not seeing it; anyone else want to take a crack at it? The healing takes time. What about the people in the temple? The other people in the graveyard? And I didn’t see the first few season but I don’t imagine Locke was able to walk IMMEDIATLY after the crash. If you die before you can get healed, you die. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/471 "2010-05-26T17:03:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m wondering if Mommy Dearest Smokified herself in order to destroy the encampment. I personally think she did. It’s the only way to have that make sense. Not that the writers care about making things make sense. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > There obviously was a Smoke Monster, since it was able to conjure up Claudia. I assumed the Claudia apparition was just her ghost. I’m going to have to rewatch The End to see if I can spot any Jack smokifying. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/472 "2010-05-26T17:17:16Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > Another thing that just occurred to me is imagine how much time people that followed the show spent sitting and thinking about what it all meant… People talked around water coolers at work, people wrote the Lostpedia, people wrote countless articles, blogs, and Straight Dope threads trying to figure it out. Probably thousands and thousands of hours… and it didn’t matter because there are no answers. The actual writers of the show didn’t think of any. Mega-bummer. It got people to think and talk and feel something. Isn’t that what art is supposed to do? There is a part of me that is miffed the Sci-fi aspects of the show did not get a grand resolution but what was done was done well enough I am willing to over look it. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/473 "2010-05-26T17:33:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > …I didn’t see the first few season but I don’t imagine Locke was able to walk IMMEDIATLY after the crash. If you die before you can get healed, you die. Simple as that. He was able to walk immediately after the crash; he regained consciousness able to walk. That’s why nobody realized he had been a paraplegic before the crash. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/474 "2010-05-26T17:46:40Z")
According to [this article by Maureen Ryan at the Chicago Tribune](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/05/lost-abc-finale.html), the final images of the wreckage over the end credits were added by ABC Execs, not the producers, and aren’t supposed to mean anything. They were just supposed to be used to transition to local newscasts. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/475 "2010-05-26T17:49:44Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Did Jack ever even know about the healing power? I don’t think he knew Locke had been in a wheelchair before the crash. I’m not sure he knew that Ben had shot Locke. I’m not sure he knew about Rose’s cancer either. Yes. He may not have believed it, but Ben explicitly told him that the Island had kept his tumor at bay until he did something wrong\* and now the Island isn’t healing him any more. Also, Ben, after open-back surgery on his spinal column, was up and around in just a few days and Jack saw that. \*Since he was following Jacob’s explicit instructions, conveyed via the list he got from Richard, I’ll be damned if I know what he did wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/476 "2010-05-26T17:51:20Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It got people to think and talk and feel something. Isn’t that what art is supposed to do? Not all art is good. See: the artist who pooped in a box and put it on display. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/477 "2010-05-26T18:01:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The healing takes time. What about the people in the temple? The other people in the graveyard? And I didn’t see the first few season but I don’t imagine Locke was able to walk IMMEDIATLY after the crash. If you die before you can get healed, you die. Simple as that. Nope. Incorrect, IIRC. A) Locke _was_ able to walk as soon as he regained consciousness. Our first shot of Locke is him wiggling his toes and then standing up. B) Ben shot Locke in the gut from point-blank range at the Dharma mass grave and Locke was up and around within an hour or so (after Walt’s ghost said he still had work to do\*). He should have been insta-dead. If Locke survived _that_, there’s absolutely no reason that Jack shouldn’t have been able to survive a stab wound in the side. \*Which was never explained. And John really _didn’t_ have work to do. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/478 "2010-05-26T18:08:27Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Actually, I either forgot that, or missed it in the first place. When was that explanation made? Some mention of it here. > **[Flight 815 pieces](https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Flight_815_pieces)** > > Various pieces of wreckage of Oceanic Flight 815 ended up in numerous locations on and near the Island after the plane suffered a mid-air break-up and subsequently crashed on September 22, 2004. Those pieces and locations have been revealed, and... ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/479 "2010-05-26T18:12:32Z")
I have following LOST faithfully since the beginning. I have never missed a show and I lurk at a LOST fan site. This has been the only show I watch on a regular basis. I really really like the finale. I think wrapping up a show like this is incredibly hard, and I though it highly unlikely they’d get it just right. They got it just right. I feel enough was answered for me to be satisfied, and I appreciated the emphasis on the characters, because they are what has made me tune in all this time. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459/480 "2010-05-26T18:25:01Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I have an answer to one of the questions mentioned in that video. Specifically, the bit about Jacob’s dying words being “They’re coming” (i.e. what he meant). I think it was simply that with his last bit of power, he scanned the Earth and tuned into a bukkake video at just the right moment. 😛 > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > He was able to walk immediately after the crash; he regained consciousness able to walk. That’s why nobody realized he had been a paraplegic before the crash. I seem to recall Rose revealing that she knew in the episode where we discover she had cancer. One of the better episodes, and one which was still highly relevant even in the finale. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > I thought I saw that, too. My WAG, Jack was already mortally wounded so the smokifying did not stick and/or Jack’s motives were good and selfless as opposed to MIB and he had accepted his fate so the smokifying didn’t take. I wonder if the fact that Jack didn’t “smoke out” have anything to do with the fact that Flocke could no longer smoke up either. Maybe uncorking the light sucked away the smoke powers altogether. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-17-the-end/540459.md?page=25)