# LOST 6.4 "The Substitute" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234 "2010-02-16T19:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/41 "2010-02-17T04:45:34Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > I like the idea of the blond kid being Aaron, but it does actually look like little Jacob and it would make more sense given Flocke’s reaction to him. Why can’t Aaron and Jacob be _one and the same_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/42 "2010-02-17T04:53:52Z")
:eek: Jacob was AUSTRALIAN?? Actually, if Claire stays in America and raises Aaron there in the sideways-verse he’d sound American–and it would be kind of cool… And I don’t want to see a Penny death scene. Especially if they feel compelled to run it about four times within ten minutes. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/43 "2010-02-17T04:54:27Z")
Money quote from Sawyer: “Well I guess I better put some pants on.” I, too, am looking forward to finding out how Locke was paralyzed in the alternate timeline. Not only does Peg Bundy include the dad in the wedding plans, but the whole reason she dumped Locke in the original timeline is that he couldn’t let go of his anger towards his father. And if Locke’s dad isn’t bad in the alternate timeline, that means Sawyer might not have lost his parents to his con. Maybe when he was talking to Hugo on the plane about being scammed, he was talking as a law enforcement officer or an anti-scam consultant type guy. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/44 "2010-02-17T05:13:33Z")
Based on an interview with the producers in EW or TV Guide before the season started, this episode is probably the sum total explanation we ever get about the numbers. Which, IMO, is totally and completely lame. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/45 "2010-02-17T07:02:00Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > The boy looked very much like a boy they would use if they ever showed us a child version of Jacob. He is now Jacob the White. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/46 "2010-02-17T07:56:01Z")
Randy’s mention of “in October” pretty much confirms that the error on Claire’s sonogram was the month. > [@Baffle](#): > > I thought Locke and Helen had broken up when she found out he was still visiting his father. When did they get back together? Well the initial timeline change was in 1977 so all number of things could have happened differently since then. In particular, Flocke implies that Jacob had a hand in changing the fate of mny of the Losties, so perhaps with Jacob gone after 1977 he never had the opportunity to screw around with the Losties…So now Locke is with Helen and has a good relationship with his Dad. > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > why would young Jacob refer to “himself” in the 3rd person? Did the kid say “Jacob” at some point? I missed that. I kind of figured he was either young Jacob or older Aaron. > [@Monstre](#): > > I wonder whether John actually has a relationship with his father in the non-crash timeline – and if so, how did he end up in the wheelchair in that timeline? Randy kept calling him “Colonel” so I’m thinking he’s a veteran and was injured while on duty. > [@Monstre](#): > > Hah!! In the alternate timeline, Ben is a school teacher! Molding fresh young minds? Warping them into demonic evil little beasties? This creates a new wrinkle though. If Ben is alive, then the island didn’t sink during the nuke explosion, but sometime after, since young Ben was still at the temple at that point and so wasn’t evacuated with the rest of the kids. > [@Monstre](#): > > He threw out the white stone – a metaphor for disrupting the balance, his inside joke? He’s the black stone, Jacob is the white. Jacob is dead, no more white stone…I also noticed, before he threw it away, the black stone was a little heavier, because he was winning? > [@Monstre](#): > > sweet… where’s Kate’s name? Jacob visited her, too Did he actually touch her? Maybe she was only a _potential_ candidate. > [@stpauler](#): > > Locke is now a SCIENCE teacher. Get it. Get the irony? If not, we will continue to shove it down your throats. LOL actually I thought he was a gym teacher, which is about as ironic. And then health class. But I didn’t catch the name of the textbook, perhaps that would clarify. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I don’t like Locke in any of his incarnations. and I can’t believe my Sawyer is really falling for him. and I think the alternate timeline is a big fat waste of time. I’m not gonna care about it until I have any reason to. Well Sawyer is kind of at wit’s end with no reason not to follow Flocke around to get some answers at least. As much as he can’t be motivated to fight Flocke, though, he equally can’t be motivated to really join Flocke more than it serves his own purposes. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Based on an interview with the producers in EW or TV Guide before the season started, this episode is probably the sum total explanation we ever get about the numbers. Which, IMO, is totally and completely lame. They had already been sort of explained in the ARG, but I agree that does no good for the people who only watch the show. Do you have a link to the interview? Context is key. We’ve certainly got a lot of info about the numbers though, even in the show. Maybe your wish for an ‘explanation’ is too vague. What specifically do you want to know? We already know, whether in of show or out: 1. Why the numbers were important to the Dharma Initiative 2. Why they were important to Jacob we know or can easily guess 1. Why do the numbers show up in random places? and we’re a little less certain about 1. why are Dharma’s numbers the same as Jacob’s numbers? Were there any other questions you had about them? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/47 "2010-02-17T11:31:11Z")
I don’t know the answers to any of those four questions. Could you post a brief explanation for each? (I pay no attention to out-of-show canon.) I’d add a question: 1. What supernatural power gives the numbers the ability to curse somebody who plays them in the lottery? In the interview they said they weren’t going to come out and explain the numbers. Instead, viewers would be left to figure out the answers by inference. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/48 "2010-02-17T12:13:03Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Frank: “Worst damn funeral I’ve ever been to.” > > 😃 Not Worst. “Weirdest”. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/49 "2010-02-17T13:37:59Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > I thought Locke and Helen had broken up when she found out he was still visiting his father. When did they get back together? There have been a number of changes showing that the non-crash timeline changed long before flight 815. Ben’s new job for one. And this Locke seems to make better choices. He’s certainly luckier than the poor schmuck in the crash-timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/50 "2010-02-17T13:47:23Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > It’s young Jacob! And that’s clearly the real John Locke. ‘Don’t tell me what I can’t do!’ I think Young Jacob is somehow connected to Aaron. I dunno why, but… Also, I agree–maybe the shape that Smokey takes influences his behavior a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/51 "2010-02-17T14:08:39Z")
It’s ironic that Locke, who mosts wants to stay on the island due to his paralysis, is the one who gains the most in the alternate timeline. A close second is Hurley. Now that I think about it, most everything we’ve seen so far indicates a happier alternate universe with the island under the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/52 "2010-02-17T14:09:35Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > It’s ironic that Locke, who mosts wants to stay on the island due to his paralysis, is the one who gains the most in the alternate timeline. A close second is Hurley. Now that I think about it, most everything we’ve seen so far indicates a happier alternate universe with the island under the ocean. Except for Kate…who deserves everything that’s coming to her. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/53 "2010-02-17T14:11:12Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > It’s ironic that Locke, who mosts wants to stay on the island due to his paralysis, is the one who gains the most in the alternate timeline. A close second is Hurley. Now that I think about it, most everything we’ve seen so far indicates a happier alternate universe with the island under the ocean. Makes me wonder if maybe Jacob and Esau aren’t BOTH evil. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/54 "2010-02-17T14:11:51Z")
Also, I don’t remember anything about Locke going to a conference in the original universe. In fact, I seem to recall him discussing the walkabout with his supervisor (who was mocking him for it). That would seem to indicate that he has a better job in the alternate timeline. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/55 "2010-02-17T14:38:04Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > I need a screencap of that ceiling. [This site](http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/2010/02/17/lost-episode-6%C3%9704-%E2%80%9Cthe-substitute%E2%80%9D-screencaps-easter-eggs-analysis/) should give you all the screen caps you need… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/56 "2010-02-17T14:42:49Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > It’s ironic that Locke, who mosts wants to stay on the island due to his paralysis, is the one who gains the most in the alternate timeline. A close second is Hurley. Now that I think about it, most everything we’ve seen so far indicates a happier alternate universe with the island under the ocean. However, it may not last. With Desmond more or less diappearing, I wonder if they will begin to encounter time paradoxes and vanish or fall apart(their lives I mean). > [@Erdosain](#): > > Also, I don’t remember anything about Locke going to a conference in the original universe. In fact, I seem to recall him discussing the walkabout with his supervisor (who was mocking him for it). That would seem to indicate that he has a better job in the alternate timeline. Well, help me remember. I took it that he didn’t go on the walkabout as planned, but lied and made one on his own. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/57 "2010-02-17T14:51:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Well, help me remember. I took it that he didn’t go on the walkabout as planned, but lied and made one on his own. Wouldn’t that be a wheelabout? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/58 "2010-02-17T15:25:20Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > 4 - Locke > 8 - Reyes > 15 - Ford > 16 - Jarrah > 23 - Shepherd > 42 - Kwon > > sweet… where’s Kate’s name? Jacob visited her, too I wonder if there is any significance that Jack, the nominal leader of the Losties, is the only prime number. Probably overthinking this… ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/59 "2010-02-17T15:31:09Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > However, it may not last. With Desmond more or less diappearing, I wonder if they will begin to encounter time paradoxes and vanish or fall apart(their lives I mean). > > Well, help me remember. I took it that he didn’t go on the walkabout as planned, but lied and made one on his own. It was season one, so I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall Locke discussing the walkabout with his coworkers before he went. He wouldn’t have done that if he was supposed to be attending a conference on the company’s dime. His original timeline position also seemed to be very junior; it doesn’t seem to fit win attending international conferences. I’m interested to see where they go with the alternate timeline. For Locke’s sake, I hope people don’t start disappearing. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/60 "2010-02-17T15:40:14Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > It was season one, so I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall Locke discussing the walkabout with his coworkers before he went. He wouldn’t have done that if he was supposed to be attending a conference on the company’s dime. His original timeline position also seemed to be very junior; it doesn’t seem to fit win attending international conferences. > > I’m interested to see where they go with the alternate timeline. For Locke’s sake, I hope people don’t start disappearing. I think he arranged the conference intentionally, planning on using it for the walkabout. Also, I am wondering if the alternate timeline is a way to produce some happy endings for some characters, like Locke, who has been killed in the “original” timeline. By the way, I think they nailed Ben Linus’ personality in the new timeline. He would totally be that guy who complains about the coffee filters and so forth if he had not been to the island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234.md?page=4)