# LOST 6.4 "The Substitute" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234 "2010-02-16T19:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/101 "2010-02-18T16:36:44Z")
Although I still really enjoy this show, I’m not so much into the whole “trying to figure out the mystery” thing anymore. I mean, if the writers are going to solve the mystery by introducing a whole new set of characters, then that’s not really something we can figure out from having watched all along. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/102 "2010-02-18T16:37:21Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Kwon was on the wall, not scratched out. Regarding whether or not “Kwon” refers to Jin or Sun (or their baby) - when they flashed to show Jacob touching people, didn’t he touch both Jin and Sun at the same time, on their arms? Maybe they’re both candidates. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/103 "2010-02-18T16:47:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Jack’s theme? If you’re talking about the DAAAAH-dah-DAAAAH-dah-DAH-dah\_DAAAAAH-DAH-dah, that’s the all purpose sadness theme that is always used at burials. Very good rendition! I always tear up when I hear it. Well, it’s a death song, duh. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/104 "2010-02-18T17:15:43Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > Regarding whether or not “Kwon” refers to Jin or Sun (or their baby) - when they flashed to show Jacob touching people, didn’t he touch both Jin and Sun at the same time, on their arms? Maybe they’re both candidates. I have a feeling it’s their kid. I think the writers chose to put last names instead of first names up there for a reason. Nad lets not forget she was conceived on the island, which we know hasn’t happened for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/105 "2010-02-18T17:30:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > The mention of “god-like beings” reminded me of one intriguing comment from Smokey, i.e. that before all of this started, he was a regular man. I thought that was interesting, as I’d been thinking that these dudes were some kind of exiled Egyptian gods or something. Smokey could be lying, though. Scratch that - Smokey (or “Flocke”) is almost certainly lying about at least some things. Only question is whether he’s lying about this. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/106 "2010-02-18T18:23:27Z")
Random Design: > [@](#): > > And I don’t see why Sawyer has any more interest in getting off the island now than when he earlier decided to skip out on the helicopter/freighter opportunity..? I suspect that since Richard’s warning, he’s just trying to play along with Flocke to find out what he’s really up to. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/107 "2010-02-18T19:00:58Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > It’s ironic that Locke, who mosts wants to stay on the island due to his paralysis, is the one who gains the most in the alternate timeline. A close second is Hurley. Now that I think about it, most everything we’ve seen so far indicates a happier alternate universe with the island under the ocean. > [@Fenris](#): > > Except for Kate…who deserves everything that’s coming to her. The “enhanced” replay stated that Kate is innocent in the alternate timeline. Remember the scene in the hospital with Claire when Kate asked “Would you believe me if I told you I was innocent?” The bottom of the screen read something like: “This is a change; in the original timeline Kate was guilty” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/108 "2010-02-18T20:47:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The “enhanced” replay stated that Kate is innocent in the alternate timeline. Remember the scene in the hospital with Claire when Kate asked “Would you believe me if I told you I was innocent?” The bottom of the screen read something like: “This is a change; in the original timeline Kate was guilty” Hence the title: _What Kate Didn’t Do_. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/109 "2010-02-18T21:04:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hence the title: _What Kate Didn’t Do_. And a play on [What Kate Did](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Kate_Did) from season 2. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/110 "2010-02-18T21:08:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And a play on [What Kate Did](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Kate_Did) from season 2. Of course. That was the episode in which we actually saw her commit the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/111 "2010-02-18T21:22:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hence the title: _What Kate Didn’t Do_. Actually, the title was “[What Kate Does](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/What_Kate_Does).” ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/112 "2010-02-18T21:23:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hence the title: _What Kate Didn’t Do_. Hmm, I was under the impression that the title of last week’s episode was “What Kate Does”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/113 "2010-02-18T21:25:01Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Actually, the title was “[What Kate Does](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/What_Kate_Does).” :smack: Never mind! They could have given it the title: _What Kate Wouldn’t Have Done if She Didn’t Do What She Had Done._ ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/114 "2010-02-18T21:27:31Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > This, and the mention that Esau is now “stuck” in the form of John Locke, makes me wonder if he’s also somehow stuck with John’s memories and personality which will begin to manifest themselves more and more. > I also wonder whether, if he succeeds in getting off the island, he’ll be paralyzed. Oooh, I like that idea! Ironic justice for Smokey. He’ll have little Smoke-Wheelchairs for his smoke form. > [@cmyk](#): > > If the scratching out of the names, means that person is dead, then it’s true Jacob has been looking for his replacement for a long, long time.. Scratching out the name might just mean that Jacob decided the person wasn’t the right “candidate” after all (after initial consideration) – might not mean they are dead. Although certainly the dead ones will be crossed out – can’t protect the island if you’ve already snuffed it. Well, theoretically. Ghost Jacbob was still hangin’ with Hurley. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/115 "2010-02-18T21:33:12Z")
> [@fifty-six](#): > > I think the island does not need protecting. > > I think the earth needs protecting from smoky. The Island is a cage for it. It is chained down in a way. That is why we hear the sounds when it moves. Oooooh, I like this idea, too! I’ve always wondered about the “monster” and why it sounded so mechanical. I was long ago wondering if there was going to be some pseudo-scifi-babble explanation for the “security system” as some mechanical system or something. But this is an intriguing idea that fits in with that sound of straining metal and what sounds to me like chains being pulled by a winch. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/116 "2010-02-18T21:55:38Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > Regarding whether or not “Kwon” refers to Jin or Sun (or their baby) - when they flashed to show Jacob touching people, didn’t he touch both Jin and Sun at the same time, on their arms? Maybe they’re both candidates. There…is…Another…Kwon… ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/117 "2010-02-18T22:44:06Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Oooooh, I like this idea, too! > > I’ve always wondered about the “monster” and why it sounded so mechanical. I was long ago wondering if there was going to be some pseudo-scifi-babble explanation for the “security system” as some mechanical system or something. But this is an intriguing idea that fits in with that sound of straining metal and what sounds to me like chains being pulled by a winch. My guess is it’s always sounded mechanical because the initial idea was for it to _be_ mechanical (I think Ben was the one who originally described it as “a security system”). I love the show, and I’m crossing my fingers that the ending will be all kinds of awesome, but no way do I believe all this stuff with Jacob and the MIB was planned from the start. I’ll bet the monster was originally planned to have some sort of technobabble/AI explanation, and it was only last season that they even thought up the whole MIB-is-Smoky scenario. I also suspect that a lot of stuff originally presented as being important may end up being quasi-retconned by the writers as merely the “side effects” of the previously unseen Jacob/MIB war. I will give them credit for at least being unpredictable. I never thought time travel would end up being a factor, nor did I expect to find out that Jacob was both real _and_ someone we’d never seen before. They may be making up large swaths of story as they go, but at least it’s a fun ride. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/118 "2010-02-18T23:06:13Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > My guess is it’s always sounded mechanical because the initial idea was for it to _be_ mechanical (I think Ben was the one who originally described it as “a security system”). That was definitely Rousseau (Crazy French Lady,) I think before we’d ever met Ben. She’d seen Smokey drag her companions down into a hole in the ground and ‘infect’ them, but wouldn’t have any reason to know what it really was. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/119 "2010-02-18T23:11:46Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Very good rendition! I always tear up when I hear it. Well, it’s a death song, duh. Note that in LA X there was a strange, altered version of this music played during the SLO MO disembarking of 815. I love these little musical inversions: LOST has some of the best music on any show in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234/120 "2010-02-18T23:17:29Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > My guess is it’s always sounded mechanical because the initial idea was for it to _be_ mechanical (I think Ben was the one who originally described it as “a security system”). I love the show, and I’m crossing my fingers that the ending will be all kinds of awesome, but no way do I believe all this stuff with Jacob and the MIB was planned from the start. Something of this sort was. Go back to the 4th episode of Season 1, where Locke explains backgammon to Walt. Then recall that a white and black stone were found with Adam and Eve. They may well have not nailed down all these specifics, but some sort of battle between opposing, balancing forces of light and dark was brewing from day one. And then we’ve been hearing about a war brewing ever since the Others and then Widmore were introduced. It’s just that the war is much bigger/longer than we ever expected. I’m guessing that no one will be truly evil in the end: black and white balance out each other’s excesses. They keep each other in stalemate. That’d actually be a lot LESS boring than the show devolving into pure evil vs. pure good. That just doesn’t strike me as what LOST is all about, even though that’s sort of where they are leading us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-4-the-substitute/529234.md?page=7)