# LOST 6.5 "Lighthouse" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167 "2010-02-23T21:00:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/181 "2010-02-25T10:09:07Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > There sure is a lot of Kate hate in this thread. I gotta add some more. There’ve been countless scenes I call “strangle Kate” scenes, where I really would like to have strangled the woman. This Lighthouse episode has the winner so far, of all the many contenders. When Jack and Hurley find her at the river… “Jack, I almost shot you!” YOU SHOULD’VE, YOU SILLY CUNT. I’m really sick of Jack, ok > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does anyone else roll their eyes at the “back shots” that are so common on _Lost_? Yes, me. Really tired of all these “coincidences” in the other world. Really tired of this whole alternate/other world mystery and I more or less tune out during those scenes, until some relevance is established. I’m thinking that much like all the previous back-story we had to endure, none will be. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > They’re both pretty manipulative, but in the few scenes with them, it seems like Jacob is Free Will and Esau is fate. I was thinking the same, only other way round. Jacob has been meddling/fating people’s lives for ages while the other guy/Smokes did nothing. Smokes had to be summoned by Ben, and if I recall correctly Eko also elected to face him. He still seems to be providing choices to people, where Jacob just gives mysterious instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/182 "2010-02-25T12:16:04Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I miss Faraday, Desmond, Penny; need more Miles. > A thought: Maybe Locke was starting to get possessed ever since Ben shot him & left him in that mass Darma grave. (maybe ever since Smokey fixed his legs). Remember that? Then WALT appeared to him and told him he had more work to do and he was miraculously healed. and shortly after Locke threw a knife and killed a woman in cold blood. so many loose ends, not enough episodes. > > I hope Jacob & Esau aren’t playing games like God & the Devil in the book of Job in the Bible. Now that is a very unsatisfying book. Didn’t Smokey try to pull Locke underground during the first season. I seem to remember that Jack and Kate saved him by grabbing his arm. I guess Smokey wasn’t pulling as hard as he was on the Frenchman. Now that I just remembered it I hope that incident is included in whatever explanation we get. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/183 "2010-02-25T14:58:56Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > _does quiet fist pump_ Heh. For people who aren’t familiar with the book, here’s a short summary of part of the plot from Wikipedia: **Mrs. Whatsit,** Mrs. Who, and Mrs. Which turn out to be angelic beings who transport Meg, Charles Wallace, and Calvin O’Keefe through the universe by means of tesseract, a fifth-dimensional phenomenon explained as being similar to folding the fabric of space and time. Their first stop is the planet Uriel, a Utopian planet filled with joyous beings who live always in a state of light and love. There the “Mrs W’s” reveal to the children that the universe is under attack from an evil being who appears as a large dark cloud called The Black Thing. Seeing the Black Thing even from a distance is disturbing to Meg. Dark cloud representing evil? Time/space folding? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/184 "2010-02-25T15:10:07Z")
Sir Prize: > [@](#): > > Didn’t Smokey try to pull Locke underground during the first season. I seem to remember that Jack and Kate saved him by grabbing his arm. I guess Smokey wasn’t pulling as hard as he was on the Frenchman. Jack and Kate also threw some dynamite down the hole, it seemed that the explosion of the dynamite is what made Smokey let go of Locke. I guess there could be physical limits to Smokey’s invulnerability - bullets bounce off, but dynamite hurts. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/185 "2010-02-25T15:21:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Sir Prize: > > Jack and Kate also threw some dynamite down the hole, it seemed that the explosion of the dynamite is what made Smokey let go of Locke. I guess there could be physical limits to Smokey’s invulnerability - bullets bounce off, but dynamite hurts. The one thing we know that stops Smokey is the sonic fence. Maybe the loud noise of the dynamite’s explosion was what worked. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/186 "2010-02-25T15:47:50Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Heh. For people who aren’t familiar with the book, here’s a short summary of part of the plot from Wikipedia: > > **Mrs. Whatsit,** Mrs. Who, and Mrs. Which turn out to be angelic beings who transport Meg, Charles Wallace, and Calvin O’Keefe through the universe by means of tesseract, a fifth-dimensional phenomenon explained as being similar to folding the fabric of space and time. Their first stop is the planet Uriel, a Utopian planet filled with joyous beings who live always in a state of light and love. There the “Mrs W’s” reveal to the children that the universe is under attack from an evil being who appears as a large dark cloud called The Black Thing. Seeing the Black Thing even from a distance is disturbing to Meg. > > Dark cloud representing evil? Time/space folding? Hmmm. It’s been referenced directly before. This was one of the books that Sawyer read on the Island. Wallace seems to me a possible hat tip/call back. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/187 "2010-02-25T16:04:11Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > It’s been referenced directly before. This was one of the books that Sawyer read on the Island. Wallace seems to me a possible hat tip/call back. Oh, I didn’t know that. Well, glad to see they’re giving a nod to the book, and I agree with you that Wallace goes back to that. The detail in this show! I don’t know how they keep track. I wonder if they use a spreadsheet or something. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/188 "2010-02-25T19:43:43Z")
Some thoughts 1. I think we are meant, at this point, to interpret the LA X timeline as the happy ending timeline where everyone seems more capable of dealing with their issues. I may be wrong about this, but didn’t everyone so far act kinda messed up UNTIL they looked at themselves in a MIRROR? And then they had a personal realization and kinda turned things around? Might not mean anything, but might have a connection to Jacob’s mirror… but in any case, if we’re ALREADY being led to think this is the happy-ending timeline, then that can’t really be it, can it? Got to be another twist on top of that… 2. I don’t think Dogen’s reveal was meant to surprise us as soon as he turned around: it they gave us his head that we cold go “ohshitohshitoshit” for a little bit before getting the payoff. 3. Smokee vs. Jacob is really really hard to suss out. Smokee is fatalistic when we meet him, but like Jacob he also speaks of choice, and accuses Jacob of being the manipulator. Yet Smokee seems to kill people like Eko that refuse to admit they were broken and thus can show remorse and change. He doesn’t kill Ben apparently because Ben does feel remorse. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/189 "2010-02-25T19:51:02Z")
He didn’t kill Ben cause he needed Ben to kill Jacob for him. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/190 "2010-02-25T20:20:55Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > 1. I don’t think Dogen’s reveal was meant to surprise us as soon as he turned around I was totally hoping he would turn around and end up _not_ being Dogen. That would’ve been a decent surprise. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/191 "2010-02-25T20:48:20Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Some thoughts > > 1. I think we are meant, at this point, to interpret the LA X timeline as the happy ending timeline where everyone seems more capable of dealing with their issues. I may be wrong about this, but didn’t everyone so far act kinda messed up UNTIL they looked at themselves in a MIRROR? And then they had a personal realization and kinda turned things around? Might not mean anything, but might have a connection to Jacob’s mirror… but in any case, if we’re ALREADY being led to think this is the happy-ending timeline, then that can’t really be it, can it? Got to be another twist on top of that… OK, somebody volunteer to go back to all episodes of this season and look for mirrors. That would also link nicely to the nod to the Alice books. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/192 "2010-02-25T20:51:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No kidding. What really drove me nuts was when Kate says to Jack that she’s going looking for Claire, he tells her “The others think something happened to her”. Why the hell don’t you say “They think she’s turned crazy evil”? That might be just a tiny bit more useful, dude. “It’s… complicated!” ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/193 "2010-02-25T21:06:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are only last names on the compass, so maybe Aaron’s last name is Wallace. If it is, poor Aaron failed to meet Jacob’s standards at a really early age (or is dead) in order to get crossed out. > [@Frylock](#): > > It’s exactly what Hurley was sent to do–aim at 180. I highly doubt that was Jacob’s real intention at any point. Why would he want Hurley to bring someone to the island who had already crossed off as a Candidate? It was all a ruse to get Jack to see that the mirror had spied on him him and confront the demons of his past. Why else would Hurley need to bring Jack and only Jack? So he could kick in the door? Whether Jacob expected him to break the mirror or not, I don’t know. He didn’t seem upset by it, so I assume that he thinks Jack is the best Candidate (after a few minor personality adjustments) and thus no longer needs the Mirror of Long Distance Examination. > [@fachverwirrt](#): > > The word on Hurley’s arm could also be “arrow”. This works best. I actually thought the first “A” was more a picture of the arrow (the top of the “A” is filled in and the sides are curved instead of straight) and that the word following it was “aim”. Aaron makes no sense in any context; it’s [apophenia](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Apophenia). “Arrow” fits the writing and the context perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/194 "2010-02-25T21:40:07Z")
Pretty sure Kate looks in a mirror at the mechanic before deciding to go back and find Claire. Pretty sure John is looking in the mirror when he decides to rip up Jack’s card. And Jack freaks out about his scar while looking in the mirror, and then looks in a mirror in David’s room, where he smiles to see a picture of the two of them together. Also note that the episodes are still vaguely following the same pattern as season one. We had an ensamble/sorta Jacky/Katy/Charlie-ie premiere, a Kate ep, a Locke ep, a Jack ep, and the next ep is called “Sundown” (producers claim it’s a Sayid episode, which would break the pattern: this would have been a Sun-centric episode) The next ep would be a Charlie ep, which has to break the pattern, and this is rumored to be a Ben ep. But at least at the beginning, I doubt its a coincidence that we are revisiting the characters in a general sort of order. I’m sure the pattern will change break at some point, but… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/195 "2010-02-25T22:28:50Z")
> [@Skott](#): > > I highly doubt that was Jacob’s real intention at any point. Why would he want Hurley to bring someone to the island who had already crossed off as a Candidate? It was all a ruse to get Jack to see that the mirror had spied on him him and confront the demons of his past. Why else would Hurley need to bring Jack and only Jack? So he could kick in the door? Whether Jacob expected him to break the mirror or not, I don’t know. He didn’t seem upset by it, so I assume that he thinks Jack is the best Candidate (after a few minor personality adjustments) and thus no longer needs the Mirror of Long Distance Examination. All of that notwithstanding, “aim at 180” is exactly what Hurley came to do. (I didn’t say–and didn’t mean–that this was really what Jacob cared about.) ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/196 "2010-02-25T23:05:17Z")
Au contraire. Aim at _108_ is exactly what Hurley came to do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RainGrowsBrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RainGrowsBrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainGrowsBrite)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/197 "2010-02-25T23:25:20Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Unless Flocke was lying the cave, its list belonged to Jacob. I’m inclined to think it did, Flocke seemed very smug about being there, throwing the white stone away and so on. Could it be then that the lighhouse belongs to the MIB and its list is his list. It would make sense in that MIB is the one confined to the island so he would be the one who would need the mirrors to spy on and perhaps exert influence on the candidates. If I’m right then it’s no wonder Jacob didn’t seem concerned about the smashing of the mirrors – You throw my stone away and I smash your mirrors. > > Having just checked Lostpedia and seen that the images Jack saw, the pagoda where Sun and Jin got married, the church where Sawyer’s parents were buried are the places where Jacob encountered and touched the candidates, so it’s possible that it was Jacob that MIB was spying on. I think this is a very interesting point. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/198 "2010-02-25T23:55:51Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Also note that the episodes are still vaguely following the same pattern as season one. We had an ensamble/sorta Jacky/Katy/Charlie-ie premiere, a Kate ep, a Locke ep, a Jack ep, and the next ep is called “Sundown” (producers claim it’s a Sayid episode, which would break the pattern: this would have been a Sun-centric episode) The next ep would be a Charlie ep, which has to break the pattern, and this is rumored to be a Ben ep. But at least at the beginning, I doubt its a coincidence that we are revisiting the characters in a general sort of order. I’m sure the pattern will change break at some point, but… There’s also going to be a Richard Alpert episode, so I guess we’ll learn what chains he used to be in. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/199 "2010-02-26T00:14:05Z")
I guess I don’t buy the MiB = lighthouse theory. Jacob was the one trying to bring people to the Island. The lighthouse fire seemed designed to do exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167/200 "2010-02-26T02:04:49Z")
If the mirror was used to watch all these people, how come the image wasn’t constantly changing? Rather, only a few points of the compass had visible images flash. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-5-lighthouse/530167.md?page=11)