# LOST 6.6 "Sundown" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026 "2010-03-02T18:47:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/121 "2010-03-04T12:47:14Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > When have we ever seen Jacob ‘wearing’ someone else’s body/identity? > For what it’s worth, the producers have said that Jacob has never taken on anyone else’s form, so I don’t think he’s being influenced that way. Interesting… so all the apparitions, Christian, Horace, Eko’s brother, etc.. were the MiB? I was also hoping they would explain how/why the smoke monster appeared after Alex was killed and Ben said “He changed the rule” then disappeared into that secret room for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/122 "2010-03-04T13:55:10Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Interesting… so all the apparitions, Christian, Horace, Eko’s brother, etc.. were the MiB? Not all. I don’t think Hurley’s off Island ones count as MIB; Charlie, AnaLucia, and Eko. Sanatorium Dave on the island might have been. If MIB can’t leave the island, then when Jack see’s his Dad show up in his house off island it can’t be MIB. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/123 "2010-03-04T14:26:23Z")
Maybe someone brought this up earlier, but after watching again: Dogan only says that Sayid ended up on the wrong side of the good/evil scale. What if the “wrong” side is good? But he sure looked pretty evil when he scared the shit out of Ben towards the end of the show and then linked up with Smocke. And Kate didn’t look too far behind, either. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/124 "2010-03-04T14:47:15Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > Not all. I don’t think Hurley’s off Island ones count as MIB; Charlie, AnaLucia, and Eko. Sanatorium Dave on the island might have been. If MIB can’t leave the island, then when Jack see’s his Dad show up in his house off island it can’t be MIB. Right, I should have clarified that I meant apparitions on the island, excluding Hurley seeing dead people and maybe Miles talking to the dead. ---
**Author:** ![RainGrowsBrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RainGrowsBrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainGrowsBrite)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/125 "2010-03-04T19:48:45Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Humorous recap [here](http://videogum.com/149302/lost-s06e06-the-bad-sayid-get-it-you-get-it/tv/recaps/). > > Portrait of the Losties _a la_ The Simpsons [here](http://reporter.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451d69069e201310f4e4ab1970c). > > ETA: stupid fingers That recap was hilarious!!! ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/126 "2010-03-04T20:02:46Z")
That recap WAS hilarious. Looks like they do it every week. I’m gonna bookmark it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/127 "2010-03-04T20:25:37Z")
EW has[this recap](http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20348187,00.html), that manages to be simultaneously ponderous, scholarly, and snarky. Some good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/128 "2010-03-04T21:45:53Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > That may show some sort of tactical knowledge, maybe (can’t be positive it meant to do that), but it seems to be rage personified in a lot of ways. I mentioned this last week too, but Smokie also paused outside Sawyer’s window and looked inside, then flew into the jungle and stopped right next to the machete, then changed back into Smocke before picking it up to cut down Richard. I think that shows more than just rage personified. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/129 "2010-03-05T01:22:31Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I mentioned this last week too, but Smokie also paused outside Sawyer’s window and looked inside, then flew into the jungle and stopped right next to the machete, then changed back into Smocke before picking it up to cut down Richard. I think that shows more than just rage personified. I’m not getting any lack of smarts from Smokey. He came into the temple and just grabbed people. Much more likely that he purposely didn’t go after the Losties. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/130 "2010-03-05T02:01:39Z")
Been in court all week. Sorry I am tardy to the party. All the good points are, as always, taken by page three, so forgive the multi-quote function. My only original thought is that Terry O’Quinn locked down his second emmy this week. He didn’t say a word in the scene, but his tilted head triumphant grin when Kate looked at him was the most powerful moment in the history of thr show. CHILLING! I thought Ben had passed Locke as the show’s center. But TOQ stole it back as Flocke. [quote=“Monstre, post:31, topic:531026”] Heh Ben: “Come on, I know a way out, there’s still time.” [QUOTE] Wasn’t it weird seeing Ben et. al. just pop into the episode without warning OR fanfare? I liked that. Last week someone said the show is cliche in how it does a oh so unsubtle reveal of a character being somewhere they weren’t supposed to me (like Dogan talking to Jack), but the Statue Crew popping in the room was a nice surprise. Plus, NO ONE was expecting Martin Keamy! I just hope we see Captain Gault somewhere soon! One semi original thought! Know what these sideways cameos of Dogan, Keamy, and Rose remind me of? The old Marvel Comics series What If? Where a major twist in comic history affects the original story, yet famous characters still manage to interact somehow. > [@Monstre](#): > > Smokey appears to be gathering an army. Widmore: There’s a war coming, boy! > [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > Now THAT’S what I’m talking about. We’re finally getting somewhere! Where, I have no clue, but at least this episode kicked some ass. I’m with you. It may not have answered a ton of mysteries, but it damn sure pushed the story forward BIG TIME! Think about this episode in context of what a viewer from season 2 would think. If you told me -4 years that the smoke monster was a human who would raid the Temple to form an army? This was a big episode. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Yeah…MiB/smokey is pretty much The Devil, no? You “sell your soul” for something really wonderful and a whole bunch of really awful stuff happens in return. I wonder if that line will bring the “What is the magic box that Ben used to get Locke’s dad to the island?” crowd out of the woods? > [@Erdosain](#): > > Off-topic, but the contrast between Sayid’ and his brother was totally jarring. It really made it obvious that Naveen Andrews is of Indian heritage, not Arab. I thought the same thing. I think it was the fault of the actor playing the brother. They REALLY sounded like a lot of my friends who grew up in India! > [@Alessan](#): > > Might I say… whoosh? > > (Read what I actually wrote. Hint: I was referring to Hurley’s waistline) Well played, sir! I was CERTAINLY whooshed!😃 > [@Supdog](#): > > Could it be possible that MIB and Jacob are one in the same? They could just be different manifestations of the same being. > > This line from Dogen seemed quite telling to me: > > “For every _ **man** _ (singular) there is a scale. On one side of the scale there is good, and the other side, evil.” > > Seems like foreshadowing to me. I’ve been working this one over in my head. They were in the same room, but what does that mean? May I offer an addendum? If this is the case, there is a third entity to form a trinity of self aware versions of the same person. > [@Skott](#): > > During season 4, I think the producers said he was the “big bad” or something. My guess is that they meant for that season, since Widmore was the guy who sent the freighter to kill everyone on the island (save Ben). > > It’s funny that both Widmore’s goal and the MiB’s goal (at least according to Dogen) - i.e. wiping every living person off the island - is the same. In my mind, that puts them in the same camp. Widmore will play a role. Just wait for it. That said, I like the dynamic of who was the bad guy in each season? 1- The Unknown (Ethan, Polar Bears, Moving trees) 2- The Dirty Others (Led for most of the Season by Tom) 3- Ben…Ben…DEAR GOD, BEN! 4- Widmore 5- Time? The Dharma Initiative? The orginal others? Not sure. 6- TBD- Jacob or Flocke. TAKING ALL BETS! > [@Keweenaw](#): > > Not all. I don’t think Hurley’s off Island ones count as MIB; Charlie, AnaLucia, and Eko. Sanatorium Dave on the island might have been. If MIB can’t leave the island, then when Jack see’s his Dad show up in his house off island it can’t be MIB. I think it has something to do with bodies. I think Flocke can manipulate dead bodies in some manner. Maybe even as messengers off island. It reminds me of when Sawyer met the 1970’s era Dharma initiative. They had to give the Others the dead guy’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/131 "2010-03-05T13:04:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Dogan only says that Sayid ended up on the wrong side of the good/evil scale. What if the “wrong” side is good? But he sure looked pretty evil when he scared the shit out of Ben towards the end of the show and then linked up with Smocke. And Kate didn’t look too far behind, either. I noticed this as well. Dogan didn’t come right out and say you’re evil, he just said you came out on the wrong side. Which for Dogan could be ‘good’. I’ve had another thought, what if Jack’s wife turns out to be Penny. We haven’t seen her yet and there’s no proof that she’d be with Desmond since it seems everyone’s life is so different. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/132 "2010-03-05T14:34:26Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > I noticed this as well. Dogan didn’t come right out and say you’re evil, he just said you came out on the wrong side. Which for Dogan could be ‘good’. > > I’ve had another thought, what if Jack’s wife turns out to be Penny. We haven’t seen her yet and there’s no proof that she’d be with Desmond since it seems everyone’s life is so different. I think we all agree Jack’s ex is someone we know, and that she isn’t Jack’s original ex. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/133 "2010-03-05T14:38:46Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I think we all agree Jack’s ex is someone we know, and that she isn’t Jack’s original ex. I read just yesterday that the producers said she is someone we’ve already meet. That doesn’t leave many people. I was throwing Penny out there as something totally off the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/134 "2010-03-05T14:54:58Z")
Nah, it pretty much has to be Juliet. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/135 "2010-03-05T14:55:02Z")
[Interesting admissions](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103497.html?hpid=news-col-blog) from the Producers, who say: > [@](#): > > There’s a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don’t have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans… > > "We’re actually not going to comment on the show after the finale… ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/136 "2010-03-05T15:16:59Z")
I had a sleepy, half dream/musing last week that Vincent was somehow the real loophole. He was brought to the island, but can’t be conscripted by either side. Don’t have any serious theory about this or what he could do, but I find it interesting. Where did we last see Vincent? Was it with Rose and Bernard living peacefully in the jungle, wouldn’t take sides? Can’t remember exactly. But if so there are three of them who aren’t easily influenced by the big forces on the island. Maybe that will be good. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/137 "2010-03-05T15:17:43Z")
Whomever Jack’s ex is, she has blue eyes, IF the producers are following rules of genetics (which rarely happens with TV relationships). Jack’s kid had blue eyes. IIRC, blue eyes are dominant, so if one parent has brown eyes and the other blue, odds are more likely that the product of that union would produce a blue-eyed child. That means it could be Kate or Juliet. I’m liking the Juliet theory because we haven’t seen hide nor hair of her in either timeline since she smacked the bomb with the rock. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/138 "2010-03-05T15:22:57Z")
Blue eyes are recessive. (I have blue eyes, and both my parents have brown). ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/139 "2010-03-05T15:53:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Blue eyes are recessive. > > (I have blue eyes, and both my parents have brown). :smack: Nevermind then. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026/140 "2010-03-05T16:34:52Z")
Skott: > [@](#): > > It’s funny that both Widmore’s goal and the MiB’s goal (at least according to Dogen) - i.e. wiping every living person off the island - is the same. In my mind, that puts them in the same camp. Not quite. Widmore’s goal was to eliminate Ben. True, he was _willing_ to wipe out everyone on the island if that’s what it took to get Ben, but the only one he actually cared about one way or the other was Ben. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-6-6-sundown/531026.md?page=8)