# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/201 "2010-03-26T02:52:07Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Even if the writers have been making it up as they go along (and I don’t necessarily think they have been) I have definitely been enjoying the ride. They have also had some unforeseen circumstances come up with various actors. Remember that Libby and Ana Lucia both had their own individual DUIs? I can’t remember what if any effect the writers strike had other than the gap and shortened season, but they managed to endure that obstacle as well. Also, Mr. Eko was supposed to have a much longer and more major story arc, but the actor’s parents died and he was unhappy staying in Hawaii, so they wrote him out to allow him to return to England. Of all the hiccups they’ve had to cope with, I always get the sense that this was particularly disruptive to their plans. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/202 "2010-03-26T05:52:59Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Is Kate a candidate? She wasn’t one names corresponding to the numbers on the cave wall. Her name appeared on the lighthouse wheel at #51, and not crossed out. In an [interview](http://tv.ign.com/dor/objects/821880/lost/videos/lost_paleyfest_ints_030110.html%7Cstated), Carlton says her name, crossed out, was on the cave wall, but didn’t end up in any of the shots that made it into the episode. It hasn’t been explained yet why one was crossed out and the other not, but I get the impression that MIB was lying, and the cave was really his, and only the lighthouse was Jacob’s. > [@borschevsky](#): > > Hmm. Then how are they counting candidates? […] they’ve been mentioning 6 candidates. I guess if Locke’s dead then Kate might be the sixth. Maybe, since her name wasn’t crossed out in the lighthouse (though it was in the cave, and 51 isn’t one of The Numbers). Could also be counting both Kwons though that seems unlikely since Illana seems to imply Kwon is written on the list only once. Could also be: A future episode is titled “The Last Recruit” so maybe it is somebody altogether different, somebody previously crossed out who has redeemed themselves, or someone on the list for some other reason that we haven’t seen yet. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Can someone here please refresh my memory? Why did the Man in Black need Locke’s body He needed to impersonate someone that was or was going to be the Leader of the Others so that he would be allowed access to Jacob’s room in the foot statue. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Island-time wise, how many days ago was Locke buried? This was [days 8-9](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:Post-Return). > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I hate to keep bringing this up, but the people holding out hope for a non-supernatural ending astound me. There was an invisible tree crushing monster in the pilot. The show used supernatural elements to explain its mysteries from the very beginning. The dichotomy here isn’t realistic vs supernatural, it’s science-fiction vs supernatural. I think up until the point at which Hurley started seeing ghosts, Lost could have been relegated to mere science-fiction (many people speculated the smoke monster was a nanobot cloud), but after that point it has crossed over the line to supernatural. Although of course, there have been science-fiction versions of ghosts in other stories, so all hope is not lost lol. In addition to sci-fi and supernatural, and somewhat apart from them is fantasy/magic, which hopefully Lost will manage to avoid altogether! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/203 "2010-03-26T13:00:20Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Probably told by Jacob that he might be a candidate. I’ve got two other theories why they might have taken Walt. 1. They were taking all of the kids because they aren’t adults and haven’t made a good/evil balance choice yet. 2. They were taking all of the kids because they couldn’t have kids themselves anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/204 "2010-03-26T13:46:49Z")
So now that Locke is dead and gone for good, what are we to make of his life? Was he being manipulated the entire time he was on the island? Was he a fool? Or, was he correct when he followed his gut and considered himself and his situation an object of fate and destiny? Or both? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/205 "2010-03-26T18:46:26Z")
Sorry if this has already been answered but…how does a slave ship coming from Spain/North Africa wind up stranded in the same place as a boat set sail from Australia (Desmond)? Or for that matter, a plane from Australia. Wouldn’t such slave ships be destined for the Americas? ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/206 "2010-03-26T19:04:14Z")
This episode made Richard’s “I’ve served Jacob longer than you can possibly imagine speech” a little silly. Richard: I’ve served Jacob longer than you can possibly imagine. Jack: A million years? Richard: Erm… ok, not as long as you could possibly imagine. Jack: How long then? Richard: I don’t want to say. Jack: Why? Richard: You’ll think it’s lame now. Jack: Come on. Richard: A hundred and forty years, give or take a few years. Jack: You’re right, it feels a bit lame after your whole “longer than you can possibly imagine” speech. Richard: Yeah I over sold it. I should have said something like longer than you’d reasonably expect when considering the average human lifespan. Or something along those lines. Jack: Still, 140 years is pretty impressive. Richard: True. So now what? Jack: Suicide? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/207 "2010-03-26T19:26:54Z")
Unless Richard’s been playing with the donkey wheel in his spare time. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/208 "2010-03-26T19:31:07Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sorry if this has already been answered but…how does a slave ship coming from Spain/North Africa wind up stranded in the same place as a boat set sail from Australia (Desmond)? Or for that matter, a plane from Australia. > > Wouldn’t such slave ships be destined for the Americas? Jacob did it. No, it doesn’t make sense, but it’s all we’re ever gonna get, so make your peace with it. This is not a slam on the show, by the way. It’s just the way it is. If you’re gonna make yourself crazy over any of these questions, stick with the “why did they want Walt”, and “wtf with Dharma” and “how does Desmond fit into this” stuff, don’t waste the crazy on geographical impossibilities that the writers clearly expect us to write off as “Jacob did it”. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/209 "2010-03-26T19:32:19Z")
I didn’t want to learn to accept it, but Jacob made me. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/210 "2010-03-26T19:32:53Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sorry if this has already been answered but…how does a slave ship coming from Spain/North Africa wind up stranded in the same place as a boat set sail from Australia (Desmond)? Or for that matter, a plane from Australia. > > Wouldn’t such slave ships be destined for the Americas? The island tends to change locations from time to time… Slave ship ended up at island in a similar way to how Mr Eko’s brother’s plane ended up crashing on the island after leaving Africa. I realize that paragraph is a grammatical nightmare, but I’m too tired to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/211 "2010-03-26T19:39:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Jacob did it. No, it doesn’t make sense, but it’s all we’re ever gonna get, so make your peace with it. So Desmond failing to reset Defcon penguin at the exact same time was just a coincidence? Yeah, you’re right. I’m just going to make peace with myself and let these last few episodes wash over me. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/212 "2010-03-26T19:40:03Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > The island tends to change locations from time to time… Slave ship ended up at island in a similar way to how Mr Eko’s brother’s plane ended up crashing on the island after leaving Africa. Yes, remember that the… Lampost? Dharma station in LA is specifically designed to track the island as it wanders the world. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I thought the whispers were revealed to be somehow tied to the inhabitants of the Temple? I saw speculation around that after they entered the temple the first time, but I never saw anything official about it and it doesn’t make any sense. The whisperers talk backwards a lot of the time (Lostpedia has transcriptions), whereas the temple people seem to be perfectly normal Others. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/213 "2010-03-26T19:40:06Z")
After the whole DHARMA plotline being discarded and new characters coming out of the woodwork this season, the only way I’m convinced they didn’t make it up as they went along is if at the end we get a montage of all the little clues over the years we’ve missed that make us go :eek: Think the end of Sixth Sense ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/214 "2010-03-26T19:55:36Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Wouldn’t such slave ships be destined for the Americas? The flashback we saw in the last episode was set in 1867 when slavery was a settled issue in North America (never mind that the slave trade was banned long before the Civil War). Slavery was still legal in Brazil until 1888, the last place in the Western Hemisphere to ban it. However, I got the idea that Richard’s “purchase” by Whitfield was meant to be entirely illegal…the corrupt priest/apparent jailer having no qualms at making some money by selling convicts (persumably under life or death sentences) to random ship captains. We don’t know exactly where Hanso was headed though when his ship found The Island, and why he needed a handful of slaves in the hold. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/215 "2010-03-26T20:42:52Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > So Desmond failing to reset Defcon penguin at the exact same time was just a coincidence? Not really a coincidence. More an example of the way that island “rules” are powerful enough to basically circumvent physical laws. Jacob is able to draw people to the island, and when he does, the universe apparently conspires to bring them. It seems similar to the thing about Michael/Jack/Richard being unable to kill themselves. This rule is just magically more powerful than regular physics - it makes guns jam, car crashes non-fatal, dynamite fuses burn out, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/216 "2010-03-26T20:46:28Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Am I crazy or did it seem like what Hurley claimed Isabella said at the end was tacked on, maybe either by him or Jacob? I just came on here to make this same point. In addition to never seeing Isabella say it, Hurley facial expression and the way he said it made it feel like he added that line himself. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/217 "2010-03-26T20:52:14Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Jacob did it. No, it doesn’t make sense, but it’s all we’re ever gonna get, so make your peace with it. > > This is not a slam on the show, by the way. It’s just the way it is. If you’re gonna make yourself crazy over any of these questions, stick with the “why did they want Walt”, and “wtf with Dharma” and “how does Desmond fit into this” stuff, don’t waste the crazy on geographical impossibilities that the writers clearly expect us to write off as “Jacob did it”. I’m cool with that. Just wasn’t sure if there was some better explanation that I’d missed. I actually like “the island moves around a lot” too. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/218 "2010-03-26T21:27:09Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > This episode made Richard’s “I’ve served Jacob longer than you can possibly imagine speech” a little silly. > > Richard: I’ve served Jacob longer than you can possibly imagine. > Jack: A million years? > Richard: Erm… ok, not as long as you could possibly imagine. > Jack: How long then? > Richard: I don’t want to say. > Jack: Why? > Richard: You’ll think it’s lame now. > Jack: Come on. > Richard: A hundred and forty years, give or take a few years. > Jack: You’re right, it feels a bit lame after your whole “longer than you can possibly imagine” speech. > Richard: Yeah I over sold it. I should have said something like longer than you’d reasonably expect when considering the average human lifespan. Or something along those lines. > Jack: Still, 140 years is pretty impressive. > Richard: True. So now what? > Jack: Suicide? LOfreakin’L. 😃 The same template could also be used in Star Wars with Obi Wan’s “If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine” bit. Pretty much all he did post-death was pop up occasionally as a ghost who gives pep talks and makes vague pronouncements. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/219 "2010-03-26T21:32:16Z")
I wonder if a viewer’s religious beliefs affects how they perceive the developments of late on Lost. Will atheists show greater skepticism regarding the powers of Jacob, while the more religious in nature are more apt to accept the “God’s/Jacob’s will/guiding hand” (e.g.- Desmond fails to push the button at just the right time)? Not making a value judgement, but rather a curious observation. The arguments being made regarding the acts of Jacob sound like a pretty standard religous debate. We even debated the book of Job! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/220 "2010-03-26T21:35:38Z")
> [@Risha](#): > > Yes, remember that the… Lampost? Dharma station in LA is specifically designed to track the island as it wanders the world. > > I saw speculation around that after they entered the temple the first time, but I never saw anything official about it and it doesn’t make any sense. The whisperers talk backwards a lot of the time (Lostpedia has transcriptions), whereas the temple people seem to be perfectly normal Others. It is clearly a trick the Others can do. Harper showed up to tell Juliet about Ben’s request, and she showed up to whispers. Ben also tells CFL if she hears whispers run the other way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=12)