# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/221 "2010-03-27T01:23:41Z")
BTW, shouldn’t this thread be called “LOST _ **6** _.9…”? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/222 "2010-03-27T02:19:58Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > BTW, shouldn’t this thread be called “LOST _ **6** _.9…”? No, this episode is from season 8. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/223 "2010-03-27T03:33:49Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > No, this episode is from season 8. Did someone turn the frozen donkey wheel when I wasn’t looking? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/224 "2010-03-27T04:38:57Z")
_eyes you all warily for nosebleeds_ ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/225 "2010-03-27T05:21:41Z")
That would be an interesting twist for the season 6 finale: that the show will actually go on for two more seasons. Well, both interesting and infuriating, perhaps… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/226 "2010-03-27T12:05:27Z")
Watching in the UK where the show airs on Fridays. I come to this thread fully expecting to see it awash with capitalized pronouncements such as; “Now it’s all clear, THEY ARE AFTER ALL IN PURGATORY! They died on the plane and everything we have seen since including leaving the island and coming back is purgatorial fantasy - no resolution just endless, endless annoying stuff happening. Not torture - it’s not hell after all, but a holding place between heaven and hell. IT WAS PURGATORY ALL ALONG! And the final images we’ve been trailed will be some going to hell (Sayid) and some to heaven (Hurley and Jack) depending on whether MIB or Jacob 'wins” Seems I’m too simplistic. Aliens would be more annoying though. MiM ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/227 "2010-03-27T12:59:46Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Did anyone else pick up on the fact that Richard lived on Tenerife, the site of the worst plane crash in history? (I only know this because in the last episode of **Breaking Bad** , Walter mentioned it in his assembly speech. That was timely for us **Lost** and **Breaking Bad** fans :)) Not only that, but [the Tenerife disaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_disaster) involved the collision of two Boeing aircraft on an island (Oceanic 815 and Ajira 316, anyone?) AND one of the flights originated from LAX! (This was featured on an episode of Air Emergency for me…) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/228 "2010-03-27T13:10:32Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Jacob is able to draw people to the island, and when he does, the universe apparently conspires to bring them. It seems similar to the thing about Michael/Jack/Richard being unable to kill themselves. This rule is just magically more powerful than regular physics - it makes guns jam, car crashes non-fatal, dynamite fuses burn out, etc. Ugh, I’d forgotten about that stupidity. Are we to assume Jacob somehow used the lighthouse to magically make guns jam, etc…? Actually, did the dynamite fuse magically going out happen before or after Jack smashed the lighthouse mirrors? After, right? In light of the previous post, the only way these magical divine interventions make sense is in the context of everyone being in purgatory. EDIT: Another post snuck in there, so “in light of two posts ago…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/229 "2010-03-27T15:12:24Z")
OK, I finally got around to watching it last night. Richard’s backstory is stupid. Maybe I’m just not the hard-core romantic type, but these love struck guys (that’s you, too, Desmond) make me want to puke. And the storyline w/ the doctor? He says he has medicine w/o any info other than she’s sick. Yeah, right. Oh, and when he’s chained in the hold of the ship and loses the nail while fending off the pig… well, your feet aren’t shackled, so if you “almost” reach it with your mouth, there’s no reason you couldn’t get it with your foot. In the end, we find that Richard is just some shlub. I guess that’s sort of interesting. OTOH, we are getting some pieces of info about Jacob/MiB, although most of it is just re-wording some of the stuff we already know. I’m starting to go with those who say that those 2 are the same. Kind of a Jekell/Hyde thing. It’s like Jacob needs to suppress his dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/230 "2010-03-27T15:46:02Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > It is clearly a trick the Others can do. Harper showed up to tell Juliet about Ben’s request, and she showed up to whispers. > > Ben also tells CFL if she hears whispers run the other way. I’m sorry, but that still makes no sense. While they’re probably related to the Others in some way, it’s pretty clear that the Others are mostly just average people who happen to live on the island. Other than a few toys like the Dogan’s torture device, and some sort of mythology to explain basics like “the ashes keep the smoke monster out”, they don’t seem to have any more of a clue about these mysteries than our guys do. _Dharma_ seems to know more about some of it. I can’t really reconcile that with a bunch of people from the temple somehow turning invisible and hiding in the forest (and sometimes in the hatches or on the mainland!), speaking backwards overtop each other, sometimes in a strange language and/or speeded up, and apparently aware enough of what’s going to happen in the future to only show up when something dramatic and important is about to happen. I could buy that one or two special people know enough and have a spying toy that’s doing it, but it probably wasn’t Richard, and, since he didn’t know who Sayid was right off the bat, it’s even more unlikely to have been the Dogan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/231 "2010-03-27T16:46:20Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’ve got two other theories why they might have taken Walt. > > 1. They were taking all of the kids because they aren’t adults and haven’t made a good/evil balance choice yet. > > 2. They were taking all of the kids because they couldn’t have kids themselves anymore. And note that those two things aren’t mutually exclusive! ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/232 "2010-03-27T17:42:20Z")
One of the big questions I have long had is “who are the Others?” That is, why is there a group of people living on the island, in some way “following” Jacob (if only by receiving indirect messages from him through Richard?) What exactly do they _do_, what is their purpose in life? And this episode only made that question more perplexing. As of 1867 there was no group of people living on the island; Jacob told Richard everyone he had brought had died, plus he made it sound like he goes out of his way to avoid having contact with them. So at what point did this change? When and how did the people Jacob brought to the island start living, coalesce into the sort of “tribe” they’ve been presented as, with its own idiosyncratic beliefs and ways of life (Richard’s statement in the 1950’s that “my people still require justice,”) become aware of Jacob’s existence, become “followers” of him, learn that he had brought them there (cf. Mikhail’s comment about a “great man” who “brought us all here,”) become aware of the existence of his list? And once this group had formed, what were they doing all day every day before Oceanic Flight 815 crashed on the island? ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/233 "2010-03-27T18:25:45Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > One of the big questions I have long had is “who are the Others?” That is, why is there a group of people living on the island, in some way “following” Jacob (if only by receiving indirect messages from him through Richard?) What exactly do they _do_, what is their purpose in life? And this episode only made that question more perplexing. As of 1867 there was no group of people living on the island; Jacob told Richard everyone he had brought had died, plus he made it sound like he goes out of his way to avoid having contact with them. So at what point did this change? When and how did the people Jacob brought to the island start living, coalesce into the sort of “tribe” they’ve been presented as, with its own idiosyncratic beliefs and ways of life (Richard’s statement in the 1950’s that “my people still require justice,”) become aware of Jacob’s existence, become “followers” of him, learn that he had brought them there (cf. Mikhail’s comment about a “great man” who “brought us all here,”) become aware of the existence of his list? And once this group had formed, what were they doing all day every day before Oceanic Flight 815 crashed on the island? All good questions. Which will never be addressed. If you were writing it as a novel, this kind of detail would be in your outline so you would be sure that all the loose ends were tied up by the final page. But when you’re winging it for a television series that nobody knew would make it past the first season, and when the only real concern is getting as large a number of people to watch long enough to deliver eyeballs to the commercials, the level of consistency and depth you’re looking for isn’t likely to happen. “It’s only TV, it doesn’t have to be good.” ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/234 "2010-03-27T18:36:14Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Guess I’m in the minority, but I was pretty disappointed. I was hoping for some big revelation(s), but basically the episode just fleshed out things I’d already figured out. And I think they could have done without Richard’s whole backstory - it’s enough for me to know that he came on a slave ship; I don’t need the dying wife/killing the doctor melodrama. That way they could have cut out the whole “Richard’s dilemma” angle (which didn’t really ring true to me anyway) and given us a glimpse at Richard in the ATL. Well I agree with you as well. I’m beginning to think i saw a different episode to everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/235 "2010-03-27T20:47:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, I finally got around to watching it last night. > > Richard’s backstory is stupid. Maybe I’m just not the hard-core romantic type, but these love struck guys (that’s you, too, Desmond) make me want to puke. And the storyline w/ the doctor? He says he has medicine w/o any info other than she’s sick. Yeah, right. Oh, and when he’s chained in the hold of the ship and loses the nail while fending off the pig… well, your feet aren’t shackled, so if you “almost” reach it with your mouth, there’s no reason you couldn’t get it with your foot. > > In the end, we find that Richard is just some shlub. I guess that’s sort of interesting. > > OTOH, we are getting some pieces of info about Jacob/MiB, although most of it is just re-wording some of the stuff we already know. > > I’m starting to go with those who say that those 2 are the same. Kind of a Jekell/Hyde thing. It’s like Jacob needs to suppress his dark side. Richard told the Dr. that his wife was coughing blood, which is no more medically wishy-washy than most other Tuberculosis scenarious that I’ve seen in film and TV. And his feet were chained. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/236 "2010-03-27T21:03:55Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Richard told the Dr. that his wife was coughing blood, which is no more medically wishy-washy than most other Tuberculosis scenarious that I’ve seen in film and TV. OK, maybe that’s a little better, but still… This is on par with “let’s feed the data into the computer and see what it tells us”. > [@](#): > > And his feet were chained. Lostpedia says I’m right. - Bloopers and continuity errors ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/237 "2010-03-28T02:18:36Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > And his feet were chained. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Lostpedia says I’m right. > > - Bloopers and continuity errors Until LostMedia comes through with the high res screen caps, I’m siding with Cookies: [Pic](http://images.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr1040323/1040323_42753866-442b-45ae-96cc-8b97d060d845-11.jpg) and [pic](http://images.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr1040323/1040323_ce39b488-4cc8-477c-a655-f0a4f116947f-17.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/238 "2010-03-28T03:11:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ``` > * The Bible Richard was reading is a Bible printed with modern printers as opposed to a Rotary printing press or a Block feed printing press. > > ``` > > - That’s it…I’m not watching the show anymore. What do they take us for, mouth-breathing simpletons? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/239 "2010-03-28T11:21:02Z")
Who said anything about where the ship was REALLY going? It was captained by Magus Hanso. Maybe he was looking for the Island on purpose and never told his crew (including Whitfield or Witters, or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/240 "2010-03-28T14:45:34Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Until LostMedia comes through with the high res screen caps, I’m siding with Cookies: > > [Pic](http://images.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr1040323/1040323_42753866-442b-45ae-96cc-8b97d060d845-11.jpg) and [pic](http://images.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr1040323/1040323_ce39b488-4cc8-477c-a655-f0a4f116947f-17.jpg). I’m not seeing Richard’s feet in either of those pictures. But I was basing my statement on seeing MiB unlock the chains on this hands, and he was free. No unlocking of chains on this feet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=13)