# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/41 "2010-03-24T02:48:57Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I had always thought the smoke monster could only take the form of people whose dead bodies were on the island. Guess not. But this is the first time he has taken the form of a person whose dead body was not on the island, right? And how could he know anything about Isabella or Richard’s life if he hadn’t left the island in centuries? That is a puzzler. Why, for example, did Locke’s body need to come back to the island, if smokie could take his form anyway? OTOH, Dave appeared to Hurley, and didn’t even really exist. And Ben’s mom appeared to him, and she died stateside. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/42 "2010-03-24T02:49:57Z")
Obviously Smokie is looking for someone that can kill Jacob. He finally found that man in Ben. It’s like he’s got to find the right guy to manipulate? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/43 "2010-03-24T02:54:09Z")
[JACK BAUER]_ **DAMMIT!!!** _[/JACK BAUER] I was looking forward to this episode all damn day, barely getting a thing done at work because my geek brain is thinking OMG WE’RE GONNA FIND OUT RICHARD’S ORIGIN. Then I get home, get a pizza out of the freezer, sit down . . . and there’s a freakin’ POWER FAILURE that lasts until exactly 30 seconds before the freakin’ episode ends. So all I got to see was Jacob and MIB chillin’ with a bottle of wine or something, then _LOST_. Anybody know how long until they upload the ep to Hulu? How about iTunes? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/44 "2010-03-24T02:59:57Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > So what did Richard and Eko have in common that Smokie left them alone? Did the MiB “read” them and find that they could use them for something? I remember smokie coming back as Eko’s brother, but did he appear to Eko or someone else (Boone, maybe)? Did Eko kill someone? I don’t recall all the details of his story, but he came from a pretty bloody atmosphere. Did they perhaps both kill someone either accidentally, or with pure intentions? Perhaps Smokey sees them as people who deeply regret having killed? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/45 "2010-03-24T03:02:46Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Did Eko kill someone? I don’t recall all the details of his story, but he came from a pretty bloody atmosphere. > > Did they perhaps both kill someone either accidentally, or with pure intentions? Perhaps Smokey sees them as people who deeply regret having killed? Eko killed an unarmed man to protect his brother: [Shooting victim | Lostpedia | Fandom](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Shooting_victim) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/46 "2010-03-24T03:05:13Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > [JACK BAUER]_ **DAMMIT!!!** _[/JACK BAUER] > > I was looking forward to this episode all damn day, barely getting a thing done at work because my geek brain is thinking OMG WE’RE GONNA FIND OUT RICHARD’S ORIGIN. Then I get home, get a pizza out of the freezer, sit down . . . and there’s a freakin’ POWER FAILURE that lasts until exactly 30 seconds before the freakin’ episode ends. So all I got to see was Jacob and MIB chillin’ with a bottle of wine or something, then _LOST_. > > Anybody know how long until they upload the ep to Hulu? How about iTunes? You’re prolly SOL until tomorrow sometime. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/47 "2010-03-24T03:06:46Z")
What’s the point of Jacob constantly bringing people to the island if Smokey is just going to kill most of them straight off the bat? I mean, Jacob seemed genuinely surprised to see Richard at first, asking him, “Who are you?” and “Who sent you?” and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/48 "2010-03-24T03:06:52Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Did Eko kill someone? I don’t recall all the details of his story, but he came from a pretty bloody atmosphere. > > Did they perhaps both kill someone either accidentally, or with pure intentions? Perhaps Smokey sees them as people who deeply regret having killed? Ahh, this is interesting. Ben committed genocide during the Dharma Initiative. I believe he was also, in the end, sorry for killing Locke. And, of course, his “daughter.” ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/49 "2010-03-24T03:11:37Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > What’s the point of Jacob constantly bringing people to the island if Smokey is just going to kill most of them straight off the bat? I mean, Jacob seemed genuinely surprised to see Richard at first, asking him, “Who are you?” and “Who sent you?” and so forth. This development also, IMO, takes us beyond good and evil. Smokie is evil (according to Jacob), but Jacob admits that he brings people there to for Smokie to torment and kill, just to prove a point. He hardly has the moral high ground. So, maybe Smokie is more destructive, but I don’t think we can say that Jacob is good in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/50 "2010-03-24T03:13:46Z")
On the flip side, have all the candidates lost someone they’ve loved deeply in their lives? Jack = his father Locke = ?? Sawyer = His Parents Sayid = Nadia Jin/Sun = ?? (Sun’s affair?) Hurley = Libby ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/51 "2010-03-24T03:14:51Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > This development also, IMO, takes us beyond good and evil. Smokie is evil (according to Jacob), but Jacob admits that he brings people there to for Smokie to torment and kill, just to prove a point. He hardly has the moral high ground. So, maybe Smokie is more destructive, but I don’t think we can say that Jacob is good in comparison. Right, which from Smokie’s perspective makes Jacob look evil. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/52 "2010-03-24T03:16:20Z")
Reminds me of the Book of Job quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/53 "2010-03-24T03:16:47Z")
Winston Bongo - I Feel Your Pain!! ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/54 "2010-03-24T03:16:59Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ahh, this is interesting. Ben committed genocide during the Dharma Initiative. I believe he was also, in the end, sorry for killing Locke. And, of course, his “daughter.” OK, so we’ve got Richard, Ben, and Eko who might have been spared by the Smoke Monster because they regretted their killings? What about Locke? – the original one. Smokey spared Locke too. Did Locke kill anyone prior to flight 815? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/55 "2010-03-24T03:17:36Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Reminds me of the Book of Job quite a bit. Yep, that’s definitely been brought up before, I think. Jacob (God), trying to prove to Smokie (Satan), that Man can overcome their hate and indignation without Jacob (God’s) interference? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/56 "2010-03-24T03:19:33Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > OK, so we’ve got Richard, Ben, and Eko who might have been spared by the Smoke Monster because they regretted their killings? What about Locke? – the original one. Smokey spared Locke too. > > Did Locke kill anyone prior to flight 815? That’s what I was trying to think of, but Locke is also a candidate… so maybe Smokie wasn’t allowed, by island rules, to kill him? (Just like when that boy appeared to Smokie/Locke that he couldn’t kill Sawyer). ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/57 "2010-03-24T03:19:34Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > So does this mean that the Smoky is loose in the alternate timeline? > > If you were stranded on island with weapons and slaves in chains, and if you were a slaver, would you kill them all off? Makes no sense. He was trying to do them a favor (and cover his ass). Dying by the sword is generally preferable to dying by hunger or thirst. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/58 "2010-03-24T03:19:58Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > This development also, IMO, takes us beyond good and evil. Smokie is evil (according to Jacob), but Jacob admits that he brings people there to for Smokie to torment and kill, just to prove a point. He hardly has the moral high ground. So, maybe Smokie is more destructive, but I don’t think we can say that Jacob is good in comparison. I’m beginning to think this “good vs evil” aspect is a red herring. This is clearly is a gray area for both of them. Then again, history is filled with this exact sort of gray area. I wish they’d have stuck with “fate vs free will”. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/59 "2010-03-24T03:26:10Z")
It reminds me a lot of the Book of Job. Unfortunately, that is a very unsatisfying book. Hope there’s some obscure myth somewhere ‘Lost’ is referencing instead. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/60 "2010-03-24T03:27:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ahh, this is interesting. Ben committed genocide during the Dharma Initiative. I believe he was also, in the end, sorry for killing Locke. And, of course, his “daughter.” And his father. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=4)