# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/61 "2010-03-24T03:38:05Z")
Magnus Hanso…nice name check back to the early seasons mysteries. Looking at the Lostpedia entry for the Black Rock, this is the first time a Hanso has been attributed to the Black Rock in the actual show, though it was covered in The Lost Experience. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/62 "2010-03-24T03:38:31Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > And his father. Was he sorry about killing him? I can’t remember if he ever regretted it. He savored it at the time IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/63 "2010-03-24T03:45:55Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Was he sorry about killing him? I can’t remember if he ever regretted it. He savored it at the time IIRC. Oooooo. Ben “killed” his mother during child birth, which he regretted deeply. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/64 "2010-03-24T03:54:14Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > Oooooo. Ben “killed” his mother during child birth, which he regretted deeply. iiiiiiiiinteresting. But it wasn’t from any direct, knowing action on his part. Hrmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/65 "2010-03-24T05:26:16Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I had always thought the smoke monster could only take the form of people whose dead bodies were on the island. Guess not. But this is the first time he has taken the form of a person whose dead body was not on the island, right? And how could he know anything about Isabella or Richard’s life if he hadn’t left the island in centuries? Well, it’s not really clear that Smocke took the form of Isabella. Richard was starving, dehydrated and unconscious. It’s very likely that he was hallucinating the interaction with her entirely and Smocke was simply using his emotional state as leverage and playing along where he saw an opportunity to manipulate. Until proven otherwise I think the previous rule that Smokey can only impersonate people who are dead on the island holds. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Did Eko kill someone? I don’t recall all the details of his story, but he came from a pretty bloody atmosphere. > > Did they perhaps both kill someone either accidentally, or with pure intentions? Perhaps Smokey sees them as people who deeply regret having killed? They were both deeply religious. Maybe that’s why Smocke took to them and thought the were worth saving for future use. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > What’s the point of Jacob constantly bringing people to the island if Smokey is just going to kill most of them straight off the bat? I mean, Jacob seemed genuinely surprised to see Richard at first, asking him, “Who are you?” and “Who sent you?” and so forth. I think that this was the first time that Smocke tried to kill Jacob. His surprise and accusation of Richard was probably rooted in the fact that he tried to kill him mostly. He probably assumed that any candidate that he brought to the island wouldn’t be traipsing up to his door and maybe wondered if Richard was some other random person who wasn’t expected. > [@Rucksinator](#): > > He was trying to do them a favor (and cover his ass). Dying by the sword is generally preferable to dying by hunger or thirst. I think he was probably just a cruel guy and tortured them in transit. Lord knows how long they were chained up down there between the Canary Islands and the trip through Madagascar to the South Pacific. Assuming his slaves would have a murderous grudge is probably pretty sound logic. > [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Magnus Hanso…nice name check back to the early seasons mysteries. Looking at the Lostpedia entry for the Black Rock, this is the first time a Hanso has been attributed to the Black Rock in the actual show, though it was covered in The Lost Experience. Wasn’t his name attached to the log book that was auctioned off a couple seasons ago and bought by Widmore and witnessed by Desmond? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/66 "2010-03-24T05:35:42Z")
Yep. Nice call back. We are finally getting some answers. Just not the big ones. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/67 "2010-03-24T05:57:29Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Well, it’s not really clear that Smocke took the form of Isabella. Richard was starving, dehydrated and unconscious. It’s very likely that he was hallucinating the interaction with her entirely and Smocke was simply using his emotional state as leverage and playing along where he saw an opportunity to manipulate. Until proven otherwise I think the previous rule that Smokey can only impersonate people who are dead on the island holds. Didn’t Locke see his father on the island? Was he really there, or was it an impersonation? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/68 "2010-03-24T06:23:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Didn’t Locke see his father on the island? Was he really there, or was it an impersonation? He was there, but I can’t think of any reason to think that was Smokie. I just figured that the Ben/Tom/Richard/Ethan/Mikael cabal from the Others peak of influence simply tracked the guy down and brought him to the island on the Sub to fuck with Locke and Sawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/69 "2010-03-24T06:40:54Z")
Not reading the thread yet, because I recorded it earlier and am watching now. Commenting as I go: Love the little laugh Richard gave when Ilana asked “So, Richard, what _do_ we do next?” Made me think, “Richard has just reached Loony Bin territory”. “You’re dead and we’re in hell”…? I thought the producers said it wasn’t going to be a “they’re all really dead” thing. Or maybe Richard is just cracking and making up BS now. Dude. Who was Hurley talking to?? in Spanish… Well, it didn’t take much for that doctor to die – one shove and head whack. Did he fall on a sharp chicken-bone that finished him off? “Tough titty, dude – you’re burning in hell. No forgiveness for you!” Gosh, nice priest… Captain Hanso! It hit the Tawaret statue! So a big storm surge is what carried the Black Rock so far inland? Is that what knocked down Tawaret, reducing it to just a foot? If so, the time flashes last season popped our Losties back to 1867-ish or so, at least once. Ricardos – saved by Smoky the Monster?! Heh – wild boar chewing on a dead slave. Nice. Isabella on the ship? An act put on by Smoky, perhaps? Although the smoke monster sounds were happening before she went back up topside. Ahhh… so Smoky/MIB staging that bit to recruit Richard as a follower…? So now (present day) if Richard thinks Jacob was full of shit, maybe he’s falling back into believing MIB’s story (“You’re dead, and you’re in hell”). You’re going to have to kill the Devil. Hahahaha – an earlier attempt at finding that loophole… Innnnnnteresting. Plunge this into his chest. If he speaks, it will already be too late… Wow, Jacob’s got fight skills. 🙂 Baptism by Jacob… hahaha. Sounding like the sole purpose of the island is really to keep Smoky/MIB locked away from the rest of the world. And Jacob’s the gatekeeper. So Richard wanted to live forever to keep from going to Hell… hahaha – sweet. “Now that… I can do!” Cool – Hurley was talking to Isabella earlier. Nothing like your dead wife showing up and telling you not to turn to the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/70 "2010-03-24T07:13:13Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I had always thought the smoke monster could only take the form of people whose dead bodies were on the island. Guess not. But this is the first time he has taken the form of a person whose dead body was not on the island, right? And how could he know anything about Isabella or Richard’s life if he hadn’t left the island in centuries? I don’t think Smoky is limited to impersonating people whose bodies are on the island. And we’ve seen before that the smoke monster seems to read things about somebody’s life (even if it didn’t occur on the island). Remember Mr. Eko’s first encounter with the smoke? There were little flashes in it, with images from his flashbacks – i.e. OFF-island experiences. Like when he was a kid (with his brother, back in Nigeria). Smoky killed the officer, then came back down and oozed around in front of Richard. I thought there were a few little flashes, too (although no images that I saw) – looked to me like Smoky was “reading” Ricardo, kind of like it read Eko way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/71 "2010-03-24T07:38:46Z")
That was a great episode. And the acting performance of Richard/Ricardo is the best acting we’ve ever seen on the show, bar none. That should win him an Emmy award as far as I’m concerned. Unbelievable job. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/72 "2010-03-24T09:02:40Z")
Terrific episode. I love how generous \*Lost \*is - would any other show give a minor character like Richard a whole episode to prove his acting chops? Incidentally, did anyone else think Smokey (in smoke form) sounded somewhat different in 1867? More chirping, less mechanical clanking. So Jacob stole Smokey’s body. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/73 "2010-03-24T09:08:32Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Well, it’s not really clear that Smocke took the form of Isabella. Richard was starving, dehydrated and unconscious. It’s very likely that he was hallucinating the interaction with her entirely and Smocke was simply using his emotional state as leverage and playing along where he saw an opportunity to manipulate. Until proven otherwise I think the previous rule that Smokey can only impersonate people who are dead on the island holds. And didn’t we hear Smokey outside the hold while Isabella was appearing to Richard inside? ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/74 "2010-03-24T09:36:05Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Now, this is interesting. When we first saw Jacob and Not-Jacob, they were sitting on the island on a clear blue day, watching a ship come in, and many of us assumed that was the “Black Rock.” Well, clearly not, as the Black Rock shipwrecked in the middle of a raging storm. > > Hm. I liked the juxtaposition of Jacob bringing a “black rock” to the island, allowing Man in Black to tempt an understandably vulnerable Richard with the thing he wants most, only to have Richard return to MIB with a white rock. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/75 "2010-03-24T10:25:05Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Right, which from Smokie’s perspective makes Jacob look evil. And mine too. A tornado may be more destructive than a kid who tortures kittens, but there’s no doubt which one is actually evil. And if this is a parallel to the whole “Job” story (which it pretty much seems to be\*), well, frankly I thought God was the bad-guy in that story too. \* Satan/MIB: Bwah! I’m Evil. And everyone is corruptible, so they’re evil too God/Jacob: Whatever dude. Look-I’ll pick some dumb shmuck(s) to torture in the worst possible ways–I’ll even kill a bunch of their loved ones in horrible ways just for fun!–and they _still_ won’t be corrupted/curse my name. Satan/MIB: …wait–and _I’m_ the bad-guy somehow? I honestly have _never_ understood what Job was supposed to prove, other than the God in that story is a moral-less douche. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/76 "2010-03-24T13:07:34Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > If you were stranded on island with weapons and slaves in chains, and if you were a slaver, would you kill them all off? Makes no sense. Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense and the slaver even explained himself. You’re stranded on a deserted island with your cargo. They hadn’t found fresh water, they didn’t think there was any food. If you are a slaver and you have very limited resources, why would you waste them feeding and watering cargo, with which you cannot now make any money? The slaver wasn’t going to get another ship, so what’s he going to do, befriend his slaves that he’s just chained and tortured? If he freed them, he probably had a very good chance of them killing and eating _him_. And you could make an argument that it was an act of mercy to kill the slaves outright as opposed to letting them starve/dehydrate to death. So I think it makes sense but it was short-sighted. If they had five or six officers left, they could have brought the slaves out and made them find food and water and build the shelter… _then_ kill 'em to preserve food resources. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/77 "2010-03-24T13:28:19Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Hurley - you are so cool Yeah…I’m thinking those who think Aaron and Jin Yeon are going to replace Smokey and Jacob are way off. It’s going to be Hurley and Locke. > [@MsWhatsIt](#): > > What’s the point of Jacob constantly bringing people to the island if Smokey is just going to kill most of them straight off the bat? I mean, Jacob seemed genuinely surprised to see Richard at first, asking him, “Who are you?” and “Who sent you?” and so forth. Not just that, but if he’s going to bring people to the island, and then not bother to DO anything with them, what’s the point? He didn’t check for survivors, he didn’t even bother talking to them. I’d suspect that he couldn’t leave the vicinity of the statue…if the cabin wasn’t somewhere in the jungle. > [@cmyk](#): > > Yep, that’s definitely been brought up before, I think. Jacob (God), trying to prove to Smokie (Satan), that Man can overcome their hate and indignation without Jacob (God’s) interference? Except Richard didn’t. He went to kill Jacob, and the only reason he failed was that Jacob beat the stuffing out of him. It did kind of seem to me that the whole Richard situation, from the dialogue, was the first time Smokey had taken a shot at killing Jacob, though. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/78 "2010-03-24T14:00:33Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I honestly have _never_ understood what Job was supposed to prove, other than the God in that story is a moral-less douche. It’s a morality tale for a society that we’d consider pretty profoundly alien - the lesson being “It is _never_ legitimate to question God. By extension, it is never legitimate to question those who rule by divine right.” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/79 "2010-03-24T14:01:33Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > It’s a morality tale for a society that we’d consider pretty profoundly alien - the lesson being “It is _never_ legitimate to question God. By extension, it is never legitimate to question those who rule by divine right.” And, conveniently, EVERYONE in charge ruled by diving right. Convenient, that. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/80 "2010-03-24T14:02:16Z")
Regarding the allusions to hell–for Richard, the island **is** hell. His life is hell, because he’s been forced to live there for more than 100 years. Now that Jacob is dead, all Richard’s hope is gone, and he is in a living hell, with no relief in sight. Not sure why he told Hurley that he (Hurley) was dead. I hope that wasn’t foreshadowing what will actually happen to Hurley. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=5)