# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/81 "2010-03-24T14:12:23Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Regarding the allusions to hell–for Richard, the island **is** hell. His life is hell, because he’s been forced to live there for more than 100 years. Now that Jacob is dead, all Richard’s hope is gone, and he is in a living hell, with no relief in sight. > > Not sure why he told Hurley that he (Hurley) was dead. I hope that wasn’t foreshadowing what will actually happen to Hurley. He told them ALL that they were dead. What, exactly, would lead Richard to believe that he isn’t in Hell? He’s on a place where people keep dropping in and dying horribly. Occasionally instead of being killed by a magical being (who may or may not be the Devil) these people band together instead and kill each other. He ma not be surrounded in hellfire, but it would sure seem like Hell. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![canadiankorean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2bfe46/32.png) [@canadiankorean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canadiankorean)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/82 "2010-03-24T14:16:18Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > And mine too. > > A tornado may be more destructive than a kid who tortures kittens, but there’s no doubt which one is actually evil. > > And if this is a parallel to the whole “Job” story (which it pretty much seems to be\*), well, frankly I thought God was the bad-guy in that story too. > \* > Satan/MIB: Bwah! I’m Evil. And everyone is corruptible, so they’re evil too > God/Jacob: Whatever dude. Look-I’ll pick some dumb shmuck(s) to torture in the worst possible ways–I’ll even kill a bunch of their loved ones in horrible ways just for fun!–and they _still_ won’t be corrupted/curse my name. > Satan/MIB: …wait–and _I’m_ the bad-guy somehow? > > I honestly have _never_ understood what Job was supposed to prove, other than the God in that story is a moral-less douche. Well the Job story isn’t exactly like that. Satan: Your buddy Job loves you because you give him everything God: That’s not the reason: Satan: I bet if he has nothing, he’ll curse you God: Let’s see. I’ll let you do anything except kill him. Satan: Deal So God doesn’t do the killing, manipulating.. but instead allows it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/83 "2010-03-24T14:19:46Z")
> [@canadiankorean](#): > > Well the Job story isn’t exactly like that. > > Satan: Your buddy Job loves you because you give him everything > God: That’s not the reason: > Satan: I bet if he has nothing, he’ll curse you > God: Let’s see. I’ll let you do anything except kill him. > Satan: Deal > So God doesn’t do the killing, manipulating.. but instead allows it. Which is mealy-mouthed bullshit. That’s like Dogan. “Gosh, I really don’t want to kill anyone to save the world. That’s bad. But it’s OK if I just get someone else to do it, instead.” Bull-fucking-shit. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/84 "2010-03-24T14:25:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I love how generous \*Lost \*is - would any other show give a minor character like Richard a whole episode to prove his acting chops? On the other hand, some of the majors have spent the last few seasons basically sitting and waiting and maybe having one line every other episode. Nice work if you can get it. ---
**Author:** ![canadiankorean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2bfe46/32.png) [@canadiankorean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canadiankorean)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/85 "2010-03-24T14:30:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Which is mealy-mouthed bullshit. That’s like Dogan. “Gosh, I really don’t want to kill anyone to save the world. That’s bad. But it’s OK if I just get someone else to do it, instead.” > > Bull-fucking-shit. > > -Joe Wow taking it personally.. I just pointed it out that wasn’t like how the previous poster said it. Not saying if it’s wrong or right or whatever. Chill… Not an extreme Lost follower but Jacob follows the same principle right? Doesn’t interfere. So Jacob never really actually killed anyone. Sure the smoke thing did and perhaps Jacob used it to get what he wanted… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/86 "2010-03-24T14:33:47Z")
> [@canadiankorean](#): > > Well the Job story isn’t exactly like that. > > Satan: Your buddy Job loves you because you give him everything > God: That’s not the reason: > Satan: I bet if he has nothing, he’ll curse you > God: Let’s see. I’ll let you do anything except kill him. > Satan: Deal > So God doesn’t do the killing, manipulating.. but instead allows it. Right. I don’t know about others, but I was always taught in church growing up that what God allows is the same as what he does. God took those things from Job. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/87 "2010-03-24T14:59:47Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Worst. Priest. Ever. My thoughts (and my words) exactly. It was an important plot point, that Richard believe he had not been forgiven and therefore extremely reluctant to die, but it totally screws with Catholic theology and practice. A priest would never withhold forgiveness from a sincere penitent. His penance would just be to say 3 Hail Marys. C’mon, otherwise priests would never have any reason to visit Death Row. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/88 "2010-03-24T15:02:39Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > His life is hell, because he’s been forced to live there for more than 100 years. Well, he can leave the island. He visited the US in the 40s to witness Locke’s birth and then again to “test” him. He again visited the US in the early 2000s to recruit Juliet. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/89 "2010-03-24T15:08:52Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > And, conveniently, EVERYONE in charge ruled by diving right. > > Convenient, that. > > -Joe You’re not … _questioning_that, are you, **Merijeek**? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/90 "2010-03-24T15:09:41Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My thoughts (and my words) exactly. It was an important plot point, that Richard believe he had not been forgiven and therefore extremely reluctant to die, but it totally screws with Catholic theology and practice. A priest would never withhold forgiveness from a sincere penitent. His penance would just be to say 3 Hail Marys. C’mon, otherwise priests would never have any reason to visit Death Row. In all fairness, the priest had no qualms about making Richard an indentured servant. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/91 "2010-03-24T15:10:28Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > You’re not … _questioning_that, are you, **Merijeek**? It depends. Am I a Pharoh/King/Emperor? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/92 "2010-03-24T15:11:42Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My thoughts (and my words) exactly. It was an important plot point, that Richard believe he had not been forgiven and therefore extremely reluctant to die, but it totally screws with Catholic theology and practice. A priest would never withhold forgiveness from a sincere penitent. His penance would just be to say 3 Hail Marys. C’mon, otherwise priests would never have any reason to visit Death Row. Yah - but this is also the priest who sells Ricardo to the Black Pearl. It’s made pretty clear that this _is_ a very bad priest. Not the Worst Priest Ever - that’s a pretty high standard. But very bad. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/93 "2010-03-24T15:16:09Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My thoughts (and my words) exactly. It was an important plot point, that Richard believe he had not been forgiven and therefore extremely reluctant to die, but it totally screws with Catholic theology and practice. A priest would never withhold forgiveness from a sincere penitent. His penance would just be to say 3 Hail Marys. C’mon, otherwise priests would never have any reason to visit Death Row. But this is the Catholic Church of 400 years ago. Wasn’t stuff like “buying indulgences” and similar still around at that point? If so, yeah, I can see the Priest saying “You’re a peasant, you’re in jail, you killed a guy because you couldn’t afford to buy medicine…and you smell bad. I’m not going to absolve you. You can’t afford it.” And thanks to all for the Job explainations. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/94 "2010-03-24T15:25:00Z")
Am I crazy or did it seem like what Hurley claimed Isabella said at the end was tacked on, maybe either by him or Jacob? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/95 "2010-03-24T15:27:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > But this is the Catholic Church of 400 years ago. Wasn’t stuff like “buying indulgences” and similar still around at that point? If so, yeah, I can see the Priest saying “You’re a peasant, you’re in jail, you killed a guy because you couldn’t afford to buy medicine…and you smell bad. I’m not going to absolve you. You can’t afford it.” > > And thanks to all for the Job explainations. Nope. Your math & your definition of “buying indulgences” is off. That particular priest was just corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/96 "2010-03-24T15:35:15Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Nope. Your math & your definition of “buying indulgences” is off. That particular priest was just corrupt. Or not a priest at all. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/97 "2010-03-24T15:37:02Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Nope. Your math & your definition of “buying indulgences” is off. That particular priest was just corrupt. And by “math” I think he means that the late 1800’s weren’t 400 years ago. Unless you’re a time traveler. GET HIM! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ProfessorX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@ProfessorX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProfessorX)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/98 "2010-03-24T15:45:01Z")
This has to be a top 5 episode of all time for this show. It has just about everything you’d want: plot exposition, great flashbacks, lots of emotion. Was I the only one that thought the guy that bought Richard from prison was going to be names “Widmore” not “Whitfield”? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/99 "2010-03-24T15:49:13Z")
Was the knife that Richard tried to kill Jacob with the same one that Dogen gave Sayid? I’m wondering how he ended up getting it. Maybe MiB tried the same thing with Dogen, but Dogen held on to the knife. Also, I think that last scene explains what Smokey’s real plan is. He thought killing Jacob would uncork the bottle, but he’s still stuck there. So he’s gonna try to destroy the island. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/100 "2010-03-24T16:00:20Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Was the knife that Richard tried to kill Jacob with the same one that Dogen gave Sayid? I’m wondering how he ended up getting it. Maybe MiB tried the same thing with Dogen, but Dogen held on to the knife. > > Also, I think that last scene explains what Smokey’s real plan is. He thought killing Jacob would uncork the bottle, but he’s still stuck there. So he’s gonna try to destroy the island. Good idea. I wonder how he’s going to do that? Jam a wrench in the Donkey Wheel? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=6)