# LOST 8.9 "Ab Aeterno" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504 "2010-03-23T17:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/101 "2010-03-24T16:11:54Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > He thought killing Jacob would uncork the bottle, but he’s still stuck there. So he’s gonna try to destroy the island. Except some “candidates” still exist and as long as they do, I’m guessing they’re acting collectively as stopgap Jacobs, preventing Esau’s release. Meanwhile Esau/MIB/Smocke/Legion is constrained from killing them directly, as he was with Jacob. Therefore one hypothesis is that most of his movements/plans are misdirections, designed only to maneuver potential candidates into being offed in a rules-of-the-island-approved fashion. Only when the last one is eliminated will the gates come down. Sure it has holes in it, but what Lost theory doesn’t :D? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/102 "2010-03-24T16:16:35Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Except some “candidates” still exist and as long as they do, I’m guessing they’re acting collectively as stopgap Jacobs, preventing Esau’s release. Meanwhile Esau/MIB/Smocke/Legion is constrained from killing them directly, as he was with Jacob. Therefore one hypothesis is that most of his movements/plans are misdirections, designed only to maneuver potential candidates into being offed in a rules-of-the-island-approved fashion. Only when the last one is eliminated will the gates come down. > > Sure it has holes in it, but what Lost theory doesn’t :D? Biggest hole would be that if you’re right, Kate should have a knife sticking out of her neck right now. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/103 "2010-03-24T16:22:23Z")
Mahaloth: > [@](#): > > God took those things from Job. And in the end, he gave them back, plus. Once Job accepted Elihu’s arguments, and dropped his complaints about G-d’s apparent capriciousness, G-d had declared Job’s righteousness proven and rewarded him above what he had had before. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/104 "2010-03-24T16:23:53Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Biggest hole would be that if you’re right, Kate should have a knife sticking out of her neck right now. Good point. Damnit ;). ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/105 "2010-03-24T16:34:24Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Am I crazy or did it seem like what Hurley claimed Isabella said at the end was tacked on, maybe either by him or Jacob? I was wondering about that too. We didn’t hear Isabella say what Hurley claimed she said. Was that really Hurley? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/106 "2010-03-24T16:35:20Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Mahaloth: > > And in the end, he gave them back, plus. Once Job accepted Elihu’s arguments, and dropped his complaints about G-d’s apparent capriciousness, G-d had declared Job’s righteousness proven and rewarded him above what he had had before. So, like, a wife upgrade? Did the new one have a better rack? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/107 "2010-03-24T16:35:48Z")
I don’t know if this has been discussed in previous threads this season, but we’re down to the last six candidates - and based on both the cave walls and the lighthouse, there were quite a number of other candidates who have been eliminated. So my question is, why are there candidates in the first place? did Jacob know that he was going to be killed at some point and that someone else would have to take over? Was he planning ahead, just in case? It would be interesting to know when the list of candidates was first started. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/108 "2010-03-24T16:36:00Z")
Is Kate a candidate? She wasn’t one names corresponding to the numbers on the cave wall. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/109 "2010-03-24T16:41:39Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I don’t know if this has been discussed in previous threads this season, but we’re down to the last six candidates - and based on both the cave walls and the lighthouse, there were quite a number of other candidates who have been eliminated. So my question is, why are there candidates in the first place? did Jacob know that he was going to be killed at some point and that someone else would have to take over? Was he planning ahead, just in case? It would be interesting to know when the list of candidates was first started. It think it started around Richard’s arrival. The whole white rock/Black Rock thing would fit. And remember the balance scales in the cave. I think Jacob figured “if he kills me he can escape, so I’d better get working on a backup”…and since it seemed Richard was the first attempt, well, it would all fit. Of course, if Jacob can’t be killed by Smokey, and Jacob is the one bringing people to the island, well, Jacob kind of seems to be asking for it in that case. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/110 "2010-03-24T16:47:53Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Is Kate a candidate? She wasn’t one names corresponding to the numbers on the cave wall. Yes, ‘Austen’ was on the lighthouse mirror wheel. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/111 "2010-03-24T16:55:19Z")
Can someone here please refresh my memory? Why did the Man in Black need Locke’s body (or shape or form or whatever)? except to give the actor more chances to shine that is? By the way - I agree the actor portraying Richard did a helluva job last night ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/112 "2010-03-24T16:57:51Z")
Hmm. Then how are they counting candidates? The cave list was 4 - Locke 8 - Reyes 15 - Ford 16 - Jarrah 23 - Sheppard 42 - Kwon and they’ve been mentioning 6 candidates. I guess if Locke’s dead then Kate might be the sixth. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/113 "2010-03-24T16:58:35Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Can someone here please refresh my memory? Why did the Man in Black need Locke’s body (or shape or form or whatever)? except to give the actor more chances to shine that is? > By the way - I agree the actor portraying Richard did a helluva job last night We don’t know. Best guess from me is that the MIB can’t leave the island because “Jacob took my body”. So, he needed another one. Now, he’s got a body, and he’s killed Jacob, but it seems he still can’t leave. Whether he knew that or not is a big question, of course. But he seems to know it now, so he’s got another plan in motion. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/114 "2010-03-24T17:03:42Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Mahaloth: > > And in the end, he gave them back, plus. Once Job accepted Elihu’s arguments, and dropped his complaints about G-d’s apparent capriciousness, G-d had declared Job’s righteousness proven and rewarded him above what he had had before. Standard authoritarian leadership strategy. Brutally punish those who pose a problem to your regime, lavishly reward those who support it. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/115 "2010-03-24T17:14:35Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Hmm. Then how are they counting candidates? The cave list was > > 4 - Locke > 8 - Reyes > 15 - Ford > 16 - Jarrah > 23 - Sheppard > 42 - Kwon > > and they’ve been mentioning 6 candidates. I guess if Locke’s dead then Kate might be the sixth. That’s what I’ve assumed - Locke was crossed off, but we have six left, so we must not have seen all of the names in the cave. I think we can assume Jarrah is out at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/116 "2010-03-24T17:23:18Z")
It seems to me that Jacob brings the people in, chooses them for whatever reason he wants and lets them go. Esau either plays with them, kills them or sometimes lets them go. The people he seems to let go, at least as Smokie, are the ones who have killed someone, but are regretful that they did so. So far I can remember Smokie looking at: Richard, who he came back and let go. Eko, who he almost let go but then killed. Locke, who he did try and get but the dynamite forced him to let Locke go. We also know that Kate has killed someone, though she had a good reason to. Sayid has killed people, some he was probably regretful about. Jack has most likely had someone die on the table and I’m sure he regrets that. Sawyer killed the guy in Australia, but almost hesitated and was torn up about it, at least for a bit. That only leaves Hurley and Locke as people we don’t know, or I don’t remember if, they’ve killed someone. There’s also Jin, but we still don’t know, even though they said Sun last night, who threw the guy out the window. It seems to me that Jacob wants these types of people on the island, and Esau is trying to use them to kill Jacob. Maybe Jacob wants to die, he’s been alive too long, and that’s why he’s looking for a replacement. And since MIB has seen these people will kill he’s hoping they will again. We also know Richard BSed us last night as he told Jack a couple of weeks ago that Jacob _gave_ him everlasting life, while it was really Richard asking for it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/117 "2010-03-24T17:34:23Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > I think we can assume Jarrah is out at this point. I love Sayid, and I think of him as one of the few characters on this show who is bright enough to avoid drowning in three inches of water (the secret is to lift your goddamned head, KATE). However, now that he’s gone Dark Side I hope he stays there, rather than having a Reactor Shaft Moment. > [@Edward The Head](#): > > We also know Richard BSed us last night as he told Jack a couple of weeks ago that Jacob gave him everlasting life, while it was really Richard asking for it. I think that’s a distinction without a difference. Richard asked for it, but he didn’t have it until Jacob gave it to him. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/118 "2010-03-24T17:47:03Z")
I’m really starting to wonder if the rules of the island are very similar to how [Backgammon](http://www.bkgm.com/rules.html) is played. Several of the numbers are present in the game: 4, 8, 15 (number of chips), 16, (as for 23 and 42 I’m not sure… not much of a player). And the object to win is to Bear Off all your 15 chips. There’s also the **“Jacoby”** :eek: rule where: Gammons and backgammons count only as a single game if neither player has offered a double during the course of the game. This rule speeds up play by eliminating situations where a player avoids doubling so he can play on for a gammon. So, if as has been suggested, the people being brought to the island are pawns of Jacob and Man in Black, then they are following some sort of rules, which has also been strongly written into the show. The game is also ancient, and has its roots in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Can anyone with a better knowledge of the game, draw any comparisons to the rules of the game and how Jacob and his nemesis are manipulating people as chips, as well as being bound to the rules? A long shot, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/119 "2010-03-24T17:51:30Z")
Island-time wise, how many days ago was Locke buried? ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504/120 "2010-03-24T17:51:44Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > That’s what I’ve assumed - Locke was crossed off, but we have six left, so we must not have seen all of the names in the cave. > I think we can assume Jarrah is out at this point. I’m not so sure. Perhaps the “Oceanic Six” are the ones that are left. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-8-9-ab-aeterno/533504.md?page=7)