# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 100
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1981 "2009-07-21T17:16:39Z")
To answer the question that I’m sure is on everyone’s mind: **USCDiver** was town, and he’s dead. I know this because of what just happened to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1982 "2009-07-21T17:24:47Z")
> [@](#): > > To answer the question that I’m sure is on everyone’s mind: USCDiver was town, and he’s dead. If it’s all the same to you, I’d like to hear that from **Mahaloth**. **Mahaloth, what was USCDiver’s alignment?** Also, **Jimmy** , is there anything else you’re allowed to tell us about what just happened? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1983 "2009-07-21T17:34:30Z")
Of course, I’d also appreciate it if **Mahaloth** confirmed it, but I suspect that isn’t forthcoming. Uh, I can tell you what happened, and I can tell you that there weren’t any major revelations other than the outcome, but I am at risk of getting killed myself if I give you too much detail. There was a sort of random tiebreaking procedure administered by a smoke monster. The smoke monster took us both away, did the tiebreaker, and killed **Diver**. I was able to inspect him and learn that he was Faraday, like he said. Then I got sent back. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1984 "2009-07-21T17:39:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Mahaloth, what was USCDiver’s alignment?** **A search was conducted to find USCDiver, but nothing was found.** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1985 "2009-07-21T17:40:48Z")
Did you have to participate in any way in the process, other than just watching? It seems like if it was just “Monster flips a coin, and tells the winner who the loser was”, **Mahaloth** could have done it all in one post, without having to put you two in limbo for an hour. I also note that, as of right now, **USCDiver** ’s last activity on the board was at 10:46 AM, which means that it’s possible that he participated in whatever the process was. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1986 "2009-07-21T17:42:45Z")
I participated in the process. I wasn’t provided with any information about whether or not **Diver** did. The smoke monster contacted me, asked me a question, and then got back to me later and told me I was allowed to live for now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1987 "2009-07-21T17:55:00Z")
And I take it you’re not allowed to tell us what the question or answer was. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1988 "2009-07-21T17:56:31Z")
I just picked a number. Sorry, I’m being super-cautious because I’ll feel like a total jackass if the game ends because I got modkilled. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1989 "2009-07-21T17:56:32Z")
(by the way, the 10:46 AM time I listed for USCDiver’s activity was Mountain time zone, or 12:46 Eastern) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1990 "2009-07-21T18:05:06Z")
And just to go back to this point in a non-trivial and flippant, about-to-die way: > [@Chronos](#): > > And frankly, you’ve done a pretty poor job of defending yourself. You could have argued that the assumptions behind the program were incorrect, or made a case for one of the scenarios which didn’t include you. Instead, all you’ve done is whine about how unfair it is. Well, I never intended it to be fair: I intended it to find Scum. If the Scum can’t defend against it, that’s grossly unfair, but you know what? I’m fine with that. I don’t believe that it’s the case that I’ve been whining about it being unfair, and I believe that I did make a case for an alternate scenario – **Scuba** and **Diver**. Of course, I was wrong about that scenario. I’m not concerned with fairness so much as I am with accuracy, although of course at this point an appeal to accuracy coming from my corner isn’t the most powerful. Nevertheless, that’s where I was coming from. I guess I’ll have a whole new day to defend myself now, though. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1991 "2009-07-21T18:42:40Z")
Can we lynch the smoke monster next? It ate a townie! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1992 "2009-07-21T18:44:17Z")
Technically it smashed him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1993 "2009-07-21T18:53:01Z")
OK, so to take a look at what we know from this: We don’t actually know that **USCDiver** is Town, since we only have **Jimmy** ’s word on that. For all we know, **Jimmy** could be lying scum. We could say that “If **Jimmy** is Town then **Diver** is Town”. This isn’t news to me, since that was also implied by my program’s results. Now, though, it’s much more clearly true, even if you don’t accept my program. We can, I think, be confident that **Diver** really is dead. If **Jimmy** were lying about that, then there’d be too much risk of him getting caught if **Diver** really did turn up again. And if **Diver** really was Town, as **Jimmy** says, then that means that we’re now at Lynch or Lose. So from my point of view, the short version is that we don’t know any more now than we did at the start of the day, except now the stakes are higher. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1994 "2009-07-21T18:54:09Z")
So. No one moved their votes eh? Perhaps I let too much on. Perhaps both of them were town, after all. * * * Would be interesting development, if Chitwood is scum, and the entire game came down to guess a number. \*\*Also:: I’m not immediately trusting what Jimmy says. Just calling that for what it is. Don’t mean any more than that. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1995 "2009-07-21T18:55:39Z")
And, if Diver was Scum … ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1996 "2009-07-21T19:00:43Z")
He wasn’t. And it doesn’t make any sense for me to lie in that direction no matter where you think my interests lie. Meanwhile, despite the spectacularly risky situation we put ourselves in, we’re still alive and it isn’t too ugly. It’s not good, but it’s manageable. If the tie had killed us both, we’d have lost. Worth keeping in mind moving forward – the people “responsible” for the tie put us in a situation where the outcome of the game was no longer in our hands. Problem is, we were all responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1997 "2009-07-21T19:01:32Z")
Anyway, Hopefully I made my reasons clear as to why I was not going to move my vote. Let us not forget, that no one else moved their vote, either. Given that I was given a power role, even if quasi vanilla now, I do think I am next in line for the NK. I am marginally of more value to town than vanillas. I think that is enough to get me NK’d tonight. It is not a problem, I Was preparing for my death since night 1. FTR: Given that our information has changed, given that it has changed, for the worst [We now know less than we would know if we would know allignment…] FOS Telcontar. 1. This is a FOS not a Vote. 2. I really expect not to be around at dawn. 3. Therefore, my reasons are short. == Gut feeling combined with the Ironic aspect if Tel is scum this game. 4. After my blow up, I expect to be gone, period. So Scum and get me! -Meeko Town vig, who shoots his mouth off more than his gun. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1998 "2009-07-21T19:07:01Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Problem is, we were all responsible. Being generous here, the shares of blame are not equal. I would like to think my part was \< 1%. And further, if Jimmy is town, my ““breaking the tie”” would not have been that much better. Same difference for Diver. Assume Diver was Town. If we are _not_ at Ly/Lo we will find out, one way or the other, soon enough. \*\* Is it possible to lose tonight, with the NK ? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1999 "2009-07-21T19:11:18Z")
Yes, it would have been better. We could have lost the game immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/2000 "2009-07-21T20:08:27Z")
Even if they’re both Town, it would have been better to lose a Townie _and know that that person’s alignment_ than to lose one and not be sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=99) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=101)