# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/281 "2009-06-14T22:01:29Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Posting that link = mad scum tell Umm…what? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/282 "2009-06-14T22:04:36Z")
Joking. See, the link talks about how > [@](#): > > Nowadays, it cycles between “the third vote is a scum tell”, “pointing out the third vote as a scum tell is a scum tell”, and “saying ‘pointing out the third vote as a scum tell is a scum tell’ is a scum tell”. So the next step is that posting that link is a scum tell. Funny, right? Haha? Ah well. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/283 "2009-06-14T22:07:09Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Joking. > > See, the link talks about how > > So the next step is that posting that link is a scum tell. > > Funny, right? Haha? Ah well. Well I got the joke 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/284 "2009-06-14T22:17:27Z")
**Ichini** , I don’t really care about the order; I just care that finding someone suspicious for being helpful looks pretty funny, to me, the more so when it’s an apparent inconsistency from the same person. Quoth **Jimmy Chitwood** : > [@](#): > > Because obviously if I’m scum and I read in the game thread that yeah, everyone has agreed that the third vote = a scum bandwagon vote, I’m not voting third. If only. If the Scum assiduously avoided being the third to cast a vote, that’d be just as obvious a scum tell as always being third would be. The reality, as with all other “known” scum tells, is that the Scum will sometimes do it, and sometimes not. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/285 "2009-06-14T22:32:00Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > I’m a fan of “vote early, vote often” so I’m going to get myself started. Pedescribe seemed to be overreacting to meeko (see Jimmy’s earlier post and mine from 12:13 last night). It’s not super suspicious, but it strikes me as more worrisome than the other potential cases. > > \ > > Mostly I think that it’s odd that Pedescribe, who moderated my last two games, is being reactive, which I tend to think of as a new player tell. If something scumier happens I’m happy to change my vote. While I do think that OMGUS votes are not normally good strategy, in this case I don’t think it’s voteworthy. I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: **meeko’s** “case” against **pedescribe** is (to me, anyway) ridiculous. If he had posted that about me, I might be inclined to think he was scummy, too - it’s such a major reach, even for Day One. And his next vote doesn’t seem much better - almost everything looks to him like a major, obvious scum tell!!! In my experience, scum are not nearly so sloppy as to reveal obvious tells. All that said, **meeko** still reads like overeager Townie to me, so I’m not going to vote for him at the moment. And he has provided a spark for discussion, so that’s good 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/286 "2009-06-14T23:30:36Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Meeko(2) : Pedescribe, BillMC Pedescribe(2) : Jimmy Chitwood, Telcontar Jimmy Chitwood(1): Meeko Ichini(1): Chronos \*\* ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/287 "2009-06-15T01:22:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Finally, there may well be other power roles besides the Doctor which are implied by the names, which would lead to a need for all of them to hide. > [@Telcontar](#): > > Well, we could have a lot more than just a doctor in this game. A cop, a vigilante, and a governor would not be too out of place. Scrolling down the name list that storyteller posted, I see some fairly suggestive matches. If we do have a meaningfully sized power role contingent, we could accidentally line them all up for the slaughter. OK, this point is well-taken. My thinking was predicated on a single implied power role based on a known name (Jack – the one bandied about upthread). If there are indeed more that could be inferred from the name list then the odds go way down (scum vs. town power roles), and it becomes a crapshoot. I’ll stop overthinking this and move on… **Pede** ’s actions are borderline bizarre, to the n00b mind. I can accept that skimming the thread and coming across **Chronos** ’s question to **Mahaloth** would raise an eyebrow, but the knee-jerk vote seems out of character for an experienced player. Even if he later withdrew it, it means he was skimming in the first place, and I find that hard to reconcile with a high-calibre player. I place less weight on the **Meeko** affair, given past history – **Telcontar** sums it up well in his post today. Not a great case, but until we build a better one: **Vote Pedescribe** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/288 "2009-06-15T01:54:58Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > **Pede** ’s actions are borderline bizarre, to the n00b mind. I can accept that skimming the thread and coming across **Chronos** ’s question to **Mahaloth** would raise an eyebrow, but the knee-jerk vote seems out of character for an experienced player. Even if he later withdrew it, it means he was skimming in the first place, and I find that hard to reconcile with a high-calibre player. I place less weight on the **Meeko** affair, given past history – **Telcontar** sums it up well in his post today. Not a great case, but until we build a better one: > > **[]Vote Pedescribe[]** This remains my issue here. I had to put together, piece by piece, a case on my vote for Pede. And frankly, in hindsight, my WOW is not what I thought it once was. Then Jimmy comes along and he says [essentially] for me to ask a question on a sub/scum board. I mean, he just handed everyone that nugget. This could be Noob, This could be scum. Hopefully it is Noob scum. No way to know for sure right now. But, I see that Pede is getting votes, not Jimmy. What am I off on? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/289 "2009-06-15T02:14:27Z")
A series of tangents? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/290 "2009-06-15T02:24:39Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > A series of tangents? I don’t think we’ve met, my name is Meeko. If you what a character reference, might I suggest Pee… on second thought, maybe not. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/291 "2009-06-15T02:30:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > A series of tangents? :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/292 "2009-06-15T02:33:50Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > **Pede** ’s actions are borderline bizarre, to the n00b mind. I can accept that skimming the thread and coming across **Chronos** ’s question to **Mahaloth** would raise an eyebrow, but the knee-jerk vote seems out of character for an experienced player. Even if he later withdrew it, it means he was skimming in the first place, and I find that hard to reconcile with a high-calibre player. I place less weight on the **Meeko** affair, given past history – **Telcontar** sums it up well in his post today. Not a great case, but until we build a better one: > > **Vote Pedescribe** I find it amusing that you people think I’m high-calibre. I am not that good. See [Evil Dead](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498197), in which I am outed as a mason Day 1, lie to the town (as town) over the _entire game_, and constantly vote on the most outrageous and specious of reasons (including whether or not someone’s _name was capitalized_). Or see [[http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24652112609#/topic.php?uid=24652112609&topic=7666](http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24652112609#/topic.php?uid=24652112609&topic=7666)]Star Wars, in which I throw away a relatively low-suspicion position as scum by MISSING DAY 4 ENTIRELY due to [TVTropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage), during which I got lynched. Or see [Mushroom Kingdom](http://psychopathgame.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shrooms) in which I pulled The World’s Dumbest Gambit (I claimed Governor and offered the lynchee (who was town) to save him if he told the name of another scum. I was actually the roleblocker). Experience =! skill. Skill at modding =! skill at playing. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/293 "2009-06-15T02:46:27Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Pedescribe(3) : Jimmy Chitwood, Telcontar, CardinalFang Meeko(2) : Pedescribe, BillMC Jimmy Chitwood(1): Meeko Ichini(1): Chronos \*\* ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/294 "2009-06-15T03:07:08Z")
**Meeko** , here is my 2 cents, from freshman to sophomore :D. > [@Meeko](#): > > Then Jimmy comes along and he says [essentially] for me to ask a question on a sub/scum board. I mean, he just handed everyone that nugget. You do a lot of this. The Lt. Columbo/Sherlock Holmes/Perry Mason “A-Ha!” moment. The killer tell. I think many of us don’t think that way. It does lead to discussion, which is good, but it can also be a distraction. > [@Meeko](#): > > This remains my issue here. I had to put together, piece by piece, a case on my vote for Pede. ^^This, I think, is how Mafia is played. This early in the game there are no (or very few) “gotcha!” tells. For stuff like **Jimmy** , you make a note, file it in the right column, move on. Over time you use that to build a case – perhaps correlate similar odd behaviour across two (or more players), or review posts with new perspective, or ask someone to explain what they meant two days ago in light of their current stance. Stuff like that. That said, it’s Day 1 and nobody has a thick file on anyone, so it’s natural there’s more of the former. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/295 "2009-06-15T03:33:04Z")
So, what you’re saying, **pede** , is that we shouldn’t lynch you, because you often hurt your own side? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/296 "2009-06-15T03:53:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, what you’re saying, **pede** , is that we shouldn’t lynch you, because you often hurt your own side? It’s a novel and unexpected defense, I’ll admit. Gives me something to think about. Between that post and the meeko jimmy exchange I’m laughing uncontrollably. this is a mafia first for me. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/297 "2009-06-15T04:04:50Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Then Jimmy comes along and he says [essentially] for me to ask a question on a sub/scum board. I mean, he just handed everyone that nugget. This could be Noob, This could be scum. Hopefully it is Noob scum. No way to know for sure right now. I haven’t heard anything this ridiculous since I accidentally called the Walrus Hotline. _pause_ WHORNK WHORNK WHORNK _pause_ Anyway. You’re wrong–he said as much as “questions asked in the main thread can be read and responded to by town and scum alike. Be careful about it.” To which I’d add–many strategies are wasted from tossed out there at the wrong time because scum read them and could react. And I didn’t even read Crimson Glyph, so this isn’t me grumpy at you for being Meeko, it’s me grumpy at you for being a complete spaz-o-tron. That said, I don’t see much suspicious in this thread thus far, even coming back from a weekend out. The closest thing to “evidence” that I see is **pedescribe** ’s little dance number around **Chronos** , and that doesn’t even register a “vote”, just a “FOS”. On a tangent thought, thinking about how scum might vote for lynches leads me to the following question: **Can the scum talk during the day?** If they can, and we know it, that means we can be on the lookout for coherent patterns of vote manipulation based on mid-Day events, since the scum is more able to coordinate them. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/298 "2009-06-15T04:06:39Z")
NETE: (not edited to edit, natch) “many strategies are wasted from **being** tossed out there” Also, I think I asked in the wrong green color. **Can the scum talk during the day?** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/299 "2009-06-15T04:23:46Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > On a tangent thought, thinking about how scum might vote for lynches leads me to the following question: > > **Can the scum talk during the day?** > > If they can, and we know it, that means we can be on the lookout for coherent patterns of vote manipulation based on mid-Day events, since the scum is more able to coordinate them. Resist urge to WIFOM on this. Resist urge to WIFOM on this. Resist urge to WIFOM on this. Resist urge to… ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/300 "2009-06-15T04:36:25Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > You do a lot of this. The Lt. Columbo/Sherlock Holmes/Perry Mason “A-Ha!” moment. The killer tell. I think many of us don’t think that way. > > This early in the game there are no (or very few) “gotcha!” tells. For stuff like **Jimmy** , you make a note, file it in the right column, move on. Over time you use that to build a case – perhaps correlate similar odd behaviour across two (or more players), or review posts with new perspective, or ask someone to explain what they meant two days ago in light of their current stance. Stuff like that. > [@Telcontar](#): > > Between that post and the meeko jimmy exchange I’m laughing uncontrollably. this is a mafia first for me. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I haven’t heard anything this ridiculous since I accidentally called the Walrus Hotline. > > _pause_ > > Anyway. You’re wrong–he said as much as “questions asked in the main thread can be read and responded to by town and scum alike. Be careful about it.” To which I’d add–many strategies are wasted from tossed out there at the wrong time because scum read them and could react. > > That said, I don’t see much suspicious in this thread thus far, even coming back from a weekend out. The closest thing to “evidence” that I see is **pedescribe** ’s little dance number around **Chronos** , and that doesn’t even register a “vote”, just a “FOS”. So. Three people here. Each in their own way telling me that I am going to far, too soon. Each telling me that a vote for Jimmy in not needed here. Which, _was_, I might remind you, what I was after. I was asking if I was off base on my Jimmy Vote. – I’m doing the math here, and I think it is a safe bet (Based on what I assume is ““standard”” ratios) that we have at **least** one townie voicing an opinion here. Given that they are all the same, I am going with the assumption that voting for Jimmy currently is not pro town. [Yes, life inside my head is fun.] I hope my play will get better in my third mafia game. So far, I’m batting a thousand. **How scummy is it to totally not vote at all on Day 1?** * * * All of that to say the following:: **Unvote Jimmy Chitwood** \*\*Re-Vote Pede. \*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=16)