# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/461 "2009-06-17T00:28:32Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > vote count? \*\*OK, here it is. Feel free to double check, folks, but I’ve followed every vote and every vote change. I’m 99% sure it’s right. As of 8:28 PM Tuesday, the vote count is: Vote Count: Imaginary Fiend(4): Tom Scud, Telcontar, Nanook, Pedescribe Ichini(3): Chronos, Zeriel, AllWalker Pedescribe(2) : Jimmy, CardinalFang Tom Scud(2): Ichini, Imaginary Fiend Telcontar(1): ShadowFacts BillMC(1): Meeko Meeko(1): BillMC \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/462 "2009-06-17T01:05:56Z")
OK, I probably will not get an opportunity to vote tomorrow morning, and my current tentative #1 just voted for my #2, which I can’t reconcile with **pedescribe** being scum at the moment (because of how the other votes shake out), and if one of them is scum and the other isn’t, all in all, I’m most convinced by the **Fiend** contingent. **IF’s** most recent post(s, really) struck me as too concerned with what the rest of us thought about him/her. So, \*\*unvote pedescribe vote Imaginary Fiend\*\* ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/463 "2009-06-17T01:56:40Z")
I am checking in and up-to-date. I agree with most that the cases to be made are still not very strong, but that is to be expected for Day 1. Since the name-claim spun up and fizzled out with **Mahaloth** ’s divine intervention, the thrust of many cases are based on prior support for this tactic. The general consensus has been (moving towards, at least) that this gambit as a pro-town move, and I am willing to accept that this logic, while perhaps not clear-cut, has enough merit to swing my vote at this point. As I mentioned, the case against **pedescribe** was not great, and now we have better. \*\*unvote pedescribe \*\*So, on to my thoughts: **Ichini** : I read **AllWalker** ’s comments, but I place less weight on the fact that he did not correlate name/role early on. We never really settled that we were all going to, and **Mahaloth** preempted the need by basically telling us that this was indeed the case. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > [COLOR=Black][bleached] **This is a fairly simple Mafia game. Everybody is either Town or Scum and I more or less tried to put the characters where they usually seem to be.** [/COLOR][/bleached] I believe the stronger case is due to the **storyteller** flip-flop, and the continuing assertion that a mass name claim is a Bad Idea. FInally, his case against **Tom Scud** seems very weak to me. In particular: > [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > That said, I find **Tom Scud** ’s enthusiasm about claiming even more troublesome. There’s his repeated implications that people _against_ an early mass claim are scummy, and there’s post 353/354 where he advocated waiting until ToMorrow for a claim (isn’t the second day kinda early?). Huh? How is this contradictory? This consistent with his general pro-claim opinion, and that it’s getting late in the Day for the mechanics to work. **Fiend** : The case’s main point is **Fiend** ’s very strong, colourful, rejection of the claim theory, to the point of caricature (in fact, some have argued that this may point to his innocence). Fiend’s defense is that no one could have now how good a tactic this was until after **Mahaloth** ’s wrench derailed the possibility, but there was plenty of evidence that it could be a good idea – at least worth discussing – much earlier ([cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11239904&postcount=217), [cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11244989&postcount=325), [cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11245147&postcount=333)), especially since **Mahaloth** confirmed the alignment. Which brings us to this: > [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > As others have made clear, the Town isn’t likely to learn anything useful from name claiming if the character names have been randomized. I don’t think we need to belabor the point. If the character names haven’t been randomized, we run the risk of lining up our town power positions for slaughter as their character names will hint at their abilities. More so, because the name information is private, anyone can claim to be anyone else. This can be manipulated endlessly for the benefit of the scum, who already know more about us than we know about them (ie they know we’re townies). The problem here is that **Fiend** posted this [_after **Mahaloth** confirmed the names were not randomized_](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11234501&postcount=124). Sorry, **Fiend** , that swings it for me. **vote Imaginary Fiend** ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/464 "2009-06-17T02:16:59Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Just for the record, I thought I would do a lurker check, as I am wont to do on Day One. So, as of post 407, here’s a patented ShadowFacts Post Count ™: > > Meeko - 55 > Tom Scud - 31 > Chronos - 22 > Telcontar - 19 > Oredigger - 16 > Pedescribe - 16 > AllWalker - 14 > ShadowFacts - 11 > Jimmy Chitwood - 10 > Nanook - 10 > Zeriel - 7 > Imaginary Fiend - 6 > Paulwhoisaghost - 5 > Storyteller - 5 > Ichini - 5 > Cardinalfang – 5 > BillMC - 3 > > **BillMC** is the clear winner here - he didn’t post a single thing until post 230, and only 3 total. I should also note that **paulwhoisaghost** posted five times early, and has since pretty much disappeared. > > For those who haven’t played with me before, this count is not just number of posts, it’s the number of game-related posts. I do not include fluff posts, joke posts, or anything that is not minimally game-related. The bar is low, but is by necessity somewhat subjective. > > I am not advocating lynching any low posters here, just trying to find who is hiding in plain sight. Let’s go, people, time to start playing! Well, I _am_ playing, and I would like to mention a couple of things: [ul] [li]Whatever my post count, I am following along and am fully engaged.[/li][li]I am a n00b. OK, that will only buy me so much, maybe nothing, but it’s taken me a couple of days to get the hang of things and into the flow. Consider my n00b chip cashed.[/li][li]For discussion like today’s – back and forth with short posts and banter for a few hours in the middle of the day – there is no way I am gong to be able to play that way. In general, during working hours (7-7 or so CDT, US), I am not on the SDMB. I’ll try to check in once or twice going forward, but it won’t be an all-day thing (things seem quieter in the evenings, for some reason – only four posts outside of mine in the last couple hours).[/li][/ul] I’ll try to get a little more interactive during the day, but I will never be **Meeko**. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/465 "2009-06-17T02:58:59Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > [Huge Snip] > > I’ll try to get a little more interactive during the day, but I will never be **Meeko**. I think, Frankly, I need to be more cardinal\_fang. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/466 "2009-06-17T03:16:32Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > Well, I _am_ playing, and I would like to mention a couple of things: > > [ul] > [li]Whatever my post count, I am following along and am fully engaged.[/li][li]I am a n00b. OK, that will only buy me so much, maybe nothing, but it’s taken me a couple of days to get the hang of things and into the flow. Consider my n00b chip cashed.[/li][li]For discussion like today’s – back and forth with short posts and banter for a few hours in the middle of the day – there is no way I am gong to be able to play that way. In general, during working hours (7-7 or so CDT, US), I am not on the SDMB. I’ll try to check in once or twice going forward, but it won’t be an all-day thing (things seem quieter in the evenings, for some reason – only four posts outside of mine in the last couple hours).[/li][/ul] > I’ll try to get a little more interactive during the day, but I will never be **Meeko**. Checking in once a day or so works perfectly fine. Personally, i should check in less than i do, work is being neglected some what. And it is common for noobs to be quieter than others. Besides, quantity does not equal quality, it’s more important to be thoughtful than loud. ---
**Author:** ![Imaginary\_Fiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f6c823/32.png) [@Imaginary\_Fiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imaginary_Fiend)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/467 "2009-06-17T08:25:36Z")
To begin with, I hate self-pitying “bah, I told you so” posts, and much more so when they’re my own. I’ve actually been considering whether or not to post this to the game for a couple of hours now. However, even despite my extreme misgivings, it seems I can’t help but make that melodramatic last gasp. I feel bad for being voted off the island on Day One, especially for the reasons that I see presented, but I think I’d feel worse if I didn’t speak my mind. I guess I’m just not one for “Aw, shucks. Better luck next game.” So, a caveat: _The following is equal parts sarcasm and vitriol with some sprinkles of self-pity to boot, so don’t expect anything too profound. You’re probably better off skipping it._ Anyway, I find it deeply ironic that **Meeko** , who strikes me as the type of player who the scum would gladly use as a screaming meat shield, will live to see another Day and I’m getting frog-marched to the gallows. I guess it’s all in how you present yourself, isn’t it? Well, to take a page from his playbook, behold: > [@](#): > > Lost Role PM > **You are Nikki Fernandez** > > There was a terrible air plane crash. > > You don’t remember a lot about the actual crash, but when you awoke, you were lost on an island. You have recently begun to socialize with the other survivors, but you don’t really know them all that well. You have a very strong feeling that some of the people with you are…evil, and may not have even been on the plane. You have no idea who they are, but you do know that you will not feel safe until they are dead. > > You are a Survivor, this game’s version of Town I suppose it’s bad form to post that, but I’m sort of beyond caring. At this point I’m just putting this out as an “I told you so” and hopefully as an object lesson that some of us aren’t acting suspicious or scummy on purpose, but because we’re trying to get a handle on the game. And, you know, it even occurred to me that I’m damned for doing this now because everyone already knows that the scum have back-up fakie PM information, which must make me both pathetic and a liar, right? My god, I must be the worst scum player ever! Or is that the best? Or is that the worse town player?! You know, I’m not even going to argue it. I will have to say that I’m very disappointed that the continued fixation on the character of my initial statement, and also the pseudointellectual garbage that, when you get right down to it, boils down to the idea that since the supporters of name claiming were “right” (which I guess they must’ve been since **Mahaloth** changed the rules), those who disagreed must somehow have had bad intentions. I, for one, simply didn’t know any better. I thought I was doing the Town a favor by raising an alarm. Damn, I’m sorry I did that. I could have lurked or argued over some previous slight in another game and I’d apparently have been far more likely to have made it to endgame. What actually disgusts me the most about the whole thing is how emotionally charged I let a bunch of arguments scrawled in a message board make me. I haven’t had much experience with this game, but this was a learning experience in the negative sense, and one that I truly never wish to repeat. To sum up, I really regret how I played this game, both by being too vociferous when I shouldn’t have been and too quiet when I shouldn’t have, and it pisses me off that the one idea I decide to counter-champion among many ideas that were thrown around turns out to be the potential exploit that **Mahaloth** didn’t see coming. We now return you to your paranoid obsessing, minus one Imaginary Fiend. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/468 "2009-06-17T12:34:55Z")
Unfortunately for **Fiend** , that claim tells us nothing. If it came prior to **Mahaloth** ’s fix, there would be the chance for a counter name claim. If the description were anything but Vanilla Town, that would allow the possibility of a counter role claim. If IF really is VT, that is just bad luck on that front. At this stage I am unsure who is more Scummy out of **Ichini** and IF. My vote is unlikely to alter the outcome at this stage, so I will leave it where it is and look back over the cases later. Either way, I stand by my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/469 "2009-06-17T13:10:11Z")
**Fiend** : Even though I do the “grumpy last post” myself when I’m voted off, mislynches happen, especially for stupid reasons (that are only obviously stupid to you, since the rest of us don’t know your alignment) on day one. It could be worse–I once (as Town Roleblocker/Vigilante, who’d nailed a scum no less!) got speedlynched in the last few hours of a Day because I brainfarted and accidentally voted for a confirmed mason, which for some reason made the town decide to last-minute railroad me while the scum stood by and laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/470 "2009-06-17T13:24:39Z")
You know what, though? I’m convinced. Or, at least, convinced enough to meet the low bar required at this point to change my vote. Unfortunately, that puts us back in a tiebreaking situation, and I’m not that convinced **Ichini** is scum. If I vote anywhere else, we’re tied. If I keep my vote where it is, I’m condemning someone I believe to be town. I have to reread. If I’m being manipulated, I want it at least to be with full information. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/471 "2009-06-17T13:47:44Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > You know what, though? I’m convinced. Or, at least, convinced enough to meet the low bar required at this point to change my vote. Unfortunately, that puts us back in a tiebreaking situation, and I’m not that convinced **Ichini** is scum. If I vote anywhere else, we’re tied. If I keep my vote where it is, I’m condemning someone I believe to be town. > > I have to reread. If I’m being manipulated, I want it at least to be with full information. I think I can help with that dilemma. I’ve looked over the cases and like every other Day 1 they are weak. But out of them I think the case against Ichini is the best. **Vote Ichini** ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/472 "2009-06-17T13:55:07Z")
Turns out I was wrong, anyway. My vote wasn’t a tiebreaker. Anyway, I’m back where I started. \*\*unvote Imaginary Fiend Vote pedescribe\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/473 "2009-06-17T13:57:03Z")
First off, IF: I’m sorry that I caused you pain. That said, I don’t see any better cases against anyone else: all of the prominent (in my mind) targets could easily be townies: **Ichini** was throwing stuff against the wall, as were we all, this being early on day 1. And he came up with a mafia commonplace: the guy who posts a big info dump that isn’t directly related to scum-hunting could well be a scum trying to look helpful. And applied it. Per his non-posting of whether his name and alignment matched, the big push only came with AllWalker’s post (#328) Monday morning, and Ichini didn’t post anything between then and Maha’s post of 4:41 PM (#370). I don’t think lynching people for missing a 6-hour window of gameplay is a good idea. His accusation of me looks pretty OMGUS-like to me, but then it would. I guess if it looked to him like Town was heading off in the wrong direction by over-relying on the name-claim analysis, then I certainly looked like the head of the lynch mob. **BillMC** looks more like an underparticipating Townie than a scum: he came in, saw that Meeko had gotten into yet another giant annoying fight, and voted on him. He may well not have stuck around to see Meeko’s claim. Then Real Life came along and kept him away from the game ever since. **Pede** , likewise, looks like someone who got pushed around by Meeko-related annoyance. **Meeko** has claimed convincingly. **Telcontar** I frankly don’t see a case against – his vote against Pede seemed underdetermined, but it was also early in the day before things had firmed up, and there weren’t a lot of better choices at the time. And that covers everyone with votes on them, except me. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/474 "2009-06-17T13:58:55Z")
Close to the deadline, and here’s where we are: Imaginary Fiend(5): Tom Scud, Telcontar, Nanook, Pedescribe, CardinalFang, Jimmy Chitwood Ichini(4): Chronos, Zeriel, AllWalker, Oredigger Tom Scud(2): Ichini, Imaginary Fiend Telcontar(1): ShadowFacts BillMC(1): Meeko Meeko(1): BillMC **Oredigger’s** vote for **Ichini** means that an additional vote for **Ichini** , or an unvote for **IF** without a revote specifically for **Ichini** , will generate a tie. I strongly advise anyone who wants to vote for **Ichini** , or to unvote **IF** but NOT revote **Ichini** , to announce their intention to do so, and reasoning, without actually doing it. This will allow us to carefully manage the voting situation without risking a tie. I will be around and available for most of the next two hours, and so I will withhold my vote to be sure a tie doesn’t happen. I’m going to look at IF, Ichini, and Tom Scud over the course of the next few hours. My vote will be for one of the three, one way or another. And **Ichini** , if you have a role claim, I’d make it real soon. You’re as close to the gallows as **Friend** , really. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/475 "2009-06-17T13:59:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Turns out I was wrong, anyway. My vote wasn’t a tiebreaker. > > Anyway, I’m back where I started. > \*\*unvote Imaginary Fiend > > Vote pedescribe\*\* Your vote wasn’t a tiebreaker, but your _unvote_ was a tie-maker. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/476 "2009-06-17T14:02:11Z")
You miscounted, storyteller. There’s still 5 on IF and 4 on Ichini. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/477 "2009-06-17T14:06:14Z")
Right, it was 6-4. Switching to **Ichini** would have done the trick. Despite my promises to the contrary, I ought to be around until the deadline, as well. [’ ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/478 "2009-06-17T14:08:10Z")
Whoops. I obviously can’t be relied upon to count. However, my exhortation, carefully made before Jimmy’s unvote, now applies after it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/479 "2009-06-17T14:09:29Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Imaginary Fiend(5): Tom Scud, Telcontar, Nanook, Pedescribe, CardinalFang Ichini(4): Chronos, Zeriel, AllWalker, Oredigger Tom Scud(2): Ichini, Imaginary Fiend Telcontar(1): ShadowFacts BillMC(1): Meeko Meeko(1): BillMC Pedescribe(1): Jimmy Chitwood\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/480 "2009-06-17T14:10:18Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > And **Ichini** , if you have a role claim, I’d make it real soon. You’re as close to the gallows as **Friend** , really. Hm. Is that really what we need? Role claims just in case? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=25)