# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/681 "2009-06-22T15:14:51Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > I get what you are saying, but I am hardly being “cuddly”. This is a mechanical approach - if my own name were spat out I would not try to conceal it, nor would I be able to. Cuddly would be defending you from accusations, not forcing a rigid set of logic to exclude you as a suspect. I’m just saying I’ve seen it done before, as a way of wringing a mislynch or two from a scum death. And really, you’re making me out to be less suspicious than your heuristic would supposedly have me be, which means you’re defending me by omission. Whether you meant to or not is as inscrutable as anything else in this game. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/682 "2009-06-22T15:46:14Z")
Oy, crap, having the first chunk of a Day spread out across Father’s Day weekend was not a good thing. Will catch up, will comment; standard-issue apologies apply. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/683 "2009-06-22T16:03:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can see thinking that before the rules-change, but after the change, it’s crazy to think that a Scum would be pushing for the claim. > [@Chronos](#): > > I think that at this point, a name claim will, at best, provide a false sense of certainty. Let’s wait until it looks like we’re at lynch-or-lose. I’m having a hard time reconciling the above two quotes. The second quote standing alone frankly terrifies me - I can’t imagine having that mindset from a pro-Town perspective. If a name claim will help at lynch or lose, why won’t it help now, exactly? And how can something that is “crazy” for scum to want be such a lousy idea for town? Obviously, it looks like the mass claim idea isn’t getting any traction, so this isn’t really what my post is about. Mostly, what this is about is that **Chronos** has been giving me the feeling of a false identity for a while here, and that second quote, to me, is a killer. I started reading backward from there, and there are several indications that something’s off here (including the fact that **Chronos** was the first to vote for a confirmed Town player). **Vote Chronos** ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/684 "2009-06-22T16:30:54Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I’m having a hard time reconciling the above two quotes. The second quote standing alone frankly terrifies me - I can’t imagine having that mindset from a pro-Town perspective. If a name claim will help at lynch or lose, why won’t it help now, exactly? And how can something that is “crazy” for scum to want be such a lousy idea for town? > > Obviously, it looks like the mass claim idea isn’t getting any traction, so this isn’t really what my post is about. Mostly, what this is about is that **Chronos** has been giving me the feeling of a false identity for a while here, and that second quote, to me, is a killer. I started reading backward from there, and there are several indications that something’s off here (including the fact that **Chronos** was the first to vote for a confirmed Town player). > > **[color]Vote Chronos**[/color] I’ve been saying similar things to the second quote all game. I think the wording I first used was “name claiming is inevitable, but I don’t think we should do it now” or something like that. At this stage I don’t think **Chronos** is at all Scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/685 "2009-06-22T16:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I have seen before a scenario where a scum will unfairly cuddle up to a townie in order that said townie gets to be next on the lynch list when the scum is discovered. I can understand that in general; it just doesn’t seem to make sense to me for a Scum to try that with such an objective, black-and-white measure. And **Meeko** , there are certainly plenty of reasons someone would keep quiet about their name and alignment matching. But one reason would be that a person is Scum. For that reason, I agree with **AllWalker** that a disproportionately large number of Scum are likely to be on that list. As for the other list, the people who led to **Ichini** being lynched, my opinion of them depends on what **Imaginary Fiend** ’s alignment turns out to be: If **IF** is innocent, then I don’t think the last-minute voting implies any Scumminess. Incidentally, I also think it’s interesting that there’s such a large overlap between the two lists. Someone double-check my math, but if there were no actual relationship between those two lists, then a list of 7/14 and a list of 5/14 having an overlap of 4 or more members should have a probability of 18.5% (or only 7.8%, if I strike myself from the first list, since I know I’m Town). This suggests to me that there really is a relationship of some sort between those two lists, which suggests either that both lists have a higher concentration of Scum, as **AllWalker** believes, or that **AllWalker** himself is Scum and so good at finding patterns that he was able to cherry-pick two patterns to compare that had such a high overlap. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/686 "2009-06-22T16:39:54Z")
And while I was posting that, I went and got a vote: > [@](#): > > I’m having a hard time reconciling the above two quotes. The second quote standing alone frankly terrifies me - I can’t imagine having that mindset from a pro-Town perspective. If a name claim will help at lynch or lose, why won’t it help now, exactly? And how can something that is “crazy” for scum to want be such a lousy idea for town? The game changed when **Mahaloth** gave the Scum cover identities. Before that, a mass name-claim was a very good idea for Town and very bad for Scum (a fact which some Townies, myself included, unfortunately didn’t realize at the time, but all Scum should have realized it). Therefore, anyone who was pushing hard for a mass name-claim _before the rules change_ is probably Town. However, after the rules change, a mass name-claim became much less worthwhile, probably enough to not be worthwhile at all. As for the hopefully far-off possibility of Lynch or Lose, three things change then. First, we’ll have had more time to gather other information to correlate with the claims by then, making it more likely that someone will be forced into a lie. Second, we would at that point be making a full claim, powers and all, not just names, so that’ll be another opportunity to force Scum into lies. Third, once the Town is at LyLo, we really have nothing left to lose. Even if it’s not a very good option, at LyLo, nothing is really a very good option. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/687 "2009-06-22T16:51:37Z")
Ok, I just finished reading the Day the only thing that really jumps out at me is that the case against IF is really weak. We had a basic Day 1 case against him yesterday and now since some people didn’t buy it and voted for a guy who ended up being town he is leading the vote. I think that it would be better to look at the people who put Ichini in the lead then to vote for IF, I know I’m one of them, there have been no additions to IF’s case toDay despite him being the vote leader. In fact IF hasn’t posted toDay and if a better candidate for replacement then for lynch. Tom laid out the votes for Ichini pretty well [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11252502&postcount=531). There are three of us that could be considered last minute votes for Ichini; Shadow, Story, and myself. I need to reread Shadow and Story from yesterday to determine who I’m going to vote for but I think it’s a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/688 "2009-06-22T16:59:47Z")
\*\*Brief Announcement: I have something in real life that requires a minor time change. Day Two will end on Wednesday, at 11:30 AM, one half-hour earlier than planned. No big deal, just be aware that the last minute to vote is 11:29 AM. Mahaloth\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/689 "2009-06-22T17:17:48Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > We’ll see how many scum are actually on your list before we judge that, thanks. Lists make me paranoid when there are flaws in them. Which was the issue I had. Allwalker pops out this list, that derives from two other lists. Yet, the new list was supposed to be swallowed without objection. Yes, we could do the legwork to figure out what Allwalker was getting at, or he could have summarized in his post with the 2nd generation list. It would have been better, to further the case with the 2nd generation list, at the least, a simple recap of both lists would suffice. It would be better to fully explain the 2nd generation list anew, so that we could see what you are doing with the words and actions of others. > [@AllWalker](#): > > Thirdly, no, **Meeko**. Changing votes is not Scummy, and I never said or meant that. Changing votes at last minute to lynch a different target who turns out to be innocent is. And the Monty Hall effect only applies when an external knowledgable agent changes the setup based on that knowledge - if we had three suspects and **Mahaloth** cleared one, that would be Monty Hall. I believe I addressed the knowledgeable aspect, stating :: Most times, if you receive new information, that can be trusted, you will make a BETTER choice after the switch. that can be trusted == external knowledagble. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/690 "2009-06-22T17:22:21Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Ok, I just finished reading the Day the only thing that really jumps out at me is that the case against IF is really weak. We had a basic Day 1 case against him yesterday and now since some people didn’t buy it and voted for a guy who ended up being town he is leading the vote. > > I think that it would be better to look at the people who put Ichini in the lead then to vote for IF, I know I’m one of them, there have been no additions to IF’s case toDay despite him being the vote leader. In fact IF hasn’t posted toDay and if a better candidate for replacement then for lynch. > > Tom laid out the votes for Ichini pretty well [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11252502&postcount=531). There are three of us that could be considered last minute votes for Ichini; Shadow, Story, and myself. I need to reread Shadow and Story from yesterday to determine who I’m going to vote for but I think it’s a good place to start. Um, if you don’t think I\*\*maginary Fiend \*\*is scum, why would you think that those who voted for **Ichini** might be? Please take a moment to read my post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11265628&postcount=655), as I already covered some of this ground in greater detail. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/691 "2009-06-22T17:57:11Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think that it would be better to look at the people who put Ichini in the lead then to vote for IF, I know I’m one of them, **there have been no additions to IF’s case toDay despite him being the vote leader**. In fact IF hasn’t posted toDay and if a better candidate for replacement then for lynch. Snipped, and Bold is mine. > [@Meeko](#): > > Given what we know now, about Tom, I think we need to look back at Imaginary’s vote. > > **[SNIP]** > > It is my guess, that, as scum, Imaginary knew Tom to be town. He saw the chance to color Tom’s comments as "“calculated”. > > I personally define calculated as taking chances that APPEAR to be boneheaded, if not borderline suicidal, to gamble on a risk that will pay off later. > > This is what I think Imaginary was thinking when he called Tom comments calculated. – What is the MOST pro town thing I can say, while still getting a scum viewpoint across? > > But, > > This logic only pays off, if the person making ““calculated”” comments proves to be scum. > > If the person proves to be town [As did happen] then the entire gamble of calling someone “scum” based on calculated comments falls apart. > > Imaginary’s case that Tom is scum no longer holds. > > I now must question why he made it, and if he was trying to toss it out as a red herring. > > Vote Snipped Really Digger? Perhaps you thought if you didn’t read my addition to the IF case, it wouldn’t exist. Ironically, this is also more to the point, on what I as saying about manipulation. And this time, I have more invested. But, ok, if you want me to Unvote IF. \*\* Unvote Imaginary\*\* **Vote Digger** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/692 "2009-06-22T18:40:56Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > At the end of yesterday my vote was sitting on **IF**. Today, I see serious momentum towards lynching him. The case against \*\*IF \*\*has strengthened rather than weakened over the last few days (the vote switching, \*\*Ich’\*\*s and **tom** ’s innocence). While i am not exactly saddened to see **IF** on the block, I would like to sketch a disturbing scenario: > > Imagine that momentum continues to build against **IF** and we have a high consensus lynch. imagine further that **IF** is town. Not only would we have lynched a townie, we’d have gained virtually no information as it’s so safe to vote **IF**. We go into day three with (likely 3) more dead townies and very little new data. > > I’d prefer to avoid that. I’m not all that opposed to lynching **IF** if it comes to it, but I’d like to encourage town to look elsewhere before settling on that. On that note, two points: > > 1.) the apparent vigilantee kill. > > It is generally bad for a voluntary vigilante to kill the first few nights; they don’t really have the information they need to make a positive contribution. This means that we are either dealing with a noob vigilante (in which case I think town should make it clear they should be more careful) or an involuntary vigilante. there is an argument to be made for an involuntary vigilante being worse than useless and, if we do have one out there, I’d love to hear the town’s perspective on whether they should claim. I’m not up enough on the meta strategy to know the answer; I see points on both sides. > > 1. A case against someone other than **IF** > > Among the late votes that killed **Ich** and saved **IF** was **Oredigger** ’s. He originally voted **meeko** , unvoted when **meeko** started looking more innocent and, ultimately, case a late vote for **Ich**. He justified the final vote with a fairly general statement that the case against\*\* Ich \*\*was the best. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11251712&postcount=471](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11251712&postcount=471) > > the last minute vote switching killed one townie. currently it is a significant contributing factor to the case against **IF.** In a sense, the vote switching helped the mafia regardless of whether **IF** was innocent; it either saved a scum yesterday or will help condemn a townie today. **Oredigger was one of several involved but, unlike the others he: > A.) Voted for meeko. Meeko looked like a safe and easy lynch for most of yesterday. Mafia love safe and easy lynches. > B.) Didn’t get involved in the drama. yes, drama is anti town, but you’d think mafia would be a bit more concerned about making enemies than story and jimmy** seemed to be. \*\*oredigger \*\*was much closer to the prototypical flying under the radar approach. > > It’s not the best case I’ve ever made, but my goal is just to get the discussion moving. note: **Oredigger** is away until Monday. > > **Vote Oredigger** > > Further note: I’m mildly intoxicated. But it is a case. And a valid one, at that. He was posting a lot, but he never really got involved with anything controversial. And he seemed to be jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon, all while denouncing every case out there as ‘weak’. And I’ve got a gut feeling about him. Vote Oredigger > [@Meeko](#): > > WIFOM : > > But, don’t ALL mafia games have a scum board? Why would they risk this tell here? If the scum can’t talk during the day, they would need to communicate stuff like that here. On the other hand, we don’t know whether or not they can, because Mahaloth has declined to comment on that. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > FTR, this is a lazy vote - a bandwagon-hopping vote, if you will - and I don’t like it. Sorry about that. I hate Day 2, and I’ve been busy all weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/693 "2009-06-22T18:47:56Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Oredigger(3): Telcontar, Meeko, Pedescribe Imaginary Fiend(1): Chronos Zeriel(1): ScubaBen AllWalker(1): Zeriel Chronos(1): Jimmy Chitwood\*\* Please _bold and_ bluify \*\*all votes, by the way. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/694 "2009-06-22T18:50:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*Vote Count: > > Oredigger(3): Telcontar, Meeko, Pedescribe > > Imaginary Fiend(2): Pedescribe, Chronos > > Zeriel(1): ScubaBen > > AllWalker(1): Zeriel > > Chronos(1): Jimmy Chitwood\*\* > > Please _bold and_ bluify \*\*all votes, by the way. Thanks! Sorry. **Unvote IF** Wait…wait a second. Can we have more than one vote at a time? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/695 "2009-06-22T18:52:14Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Sorry. **Unvote IF** > > Wait…wait a second. > > Can we have more than one vote at a time? **Fixed. My bad.** ---
**Author:** ![Imaginary\_Fiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f6c823/32.png) [@Imaginary\_Fiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imaginary_Fiend)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/696 "2009-06-22T19:04:40Z")
Alright everyone, I’m about to present my argument and my vote. I want to acknowledge in advance just how retarded and ridiculous this might seem at the moment. I’m hoping that it looks better in hindsight. To begin with, I find it amazing that I wasn’t lynched yesterday. The more I got to thinking about it, it became less amazing and more suspicious. Then I got to digging through the posts… **Imaginary Fiend:** > [@](#): > > the type of player who the scum would gladly use as a screaming meat shield **Scuba Ben:** > [@](#): > > Or at least IF being someone the Scum want to protect. **Telcontar:** > [@](#): > > 2.) I was the second vote against IF, not the third. And once again, I really have no idea what you’re implying. In light of the information that tom was town we know…very little new about IF. We also know that the real third IF vote, Nanook, was town. Perhaps I should be worried that IF voters are dropping like flies :-P. I think I’m going to have to eat my own words from my bitchy “OMG you’re gonna kill me” post from yesterDay, ‘cause I think that about the point I posted the words, the Scum decided I was _exactly_ the kind of person who would make an _excellent_ screaming meat shield (damn my penchant for colorful metaphor). As the situation sits, I know I’m Town, but I’m in an obviously and demonstrably indefensible position, which, given my play from Day One, probably wouldn’t stop me from trying. Moreover, this would be a good deal to the Scum, who would be able to have gotten rid of both **Ichini** and I, thereby wasting two Day votes for the Town. What I’m saying is you should be suspicious of me because I’m, well, suspicious. Let’s face it, I the way stuck my foot in my mouth so bad yesterDay, even _I_ would have been better off voting for me. Which means you should be suspicious of those who defend me because it’s a strong possibility that I was only able to survive the vote yesterDay due to Scum intervention, which means I’m probably just still around because I’m in some way useful to them, probably as a diversion. (This really hit home when I started reading the Crimson Glyph thread and saw how **Meeko** ’s n00bishness was manipulated in a similar fashion.) To expand on the point, I agree with **Chronos** in the following post, but not because I think it’s a Scum move to protect one of their own (obviously), but because it benefits the Scum to protect a weak, suspicious Townie: > [@](#): > > So, a few hours before the end of the day, Imaginary Fiend was the vote-leader, but in the time since then, Jimmy Chitwood, ShadowFacts, and storyteller0910 all swung their votes, with the result that Ichini, now known to be Town, died instead. It might be too obvious, but am I the only one who thinks this looks suspicious for all four of them? To which **ShadowFacts** replied: > [@](#): > > Yep, can’t really argue with you, even though I’m on the list. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. It will look particularly bad if Fiend turns up scum at some point. Which, if you follow the “I’m only still in the game because the Scum think I’d make a good diversion” argument, would actually be the reverse of the situation that exists. And given that **ShadowFacts** is my most vocal supporter toDay I’m going to **Vote: ShadowFacts** Of course I realize for this argument to work, I’ll have to be either taken on faith or voted out, proven Town, and then have my argument reviewed to see if it holds water down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Imaginary\_Fiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f6c823/32.png) [@Imaginary\_Fiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imaginary_Fiend)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/697 "2009-06-22T19:09:29Z")
I also wanted to add that if I’m wrong, I owe a sincere apology to all those nice people who defended me. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/698 "2009-06-22T19:12:56Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Um, if you don’t think I\*\*maginary Fiend \*\*is scum, why would you think that those who voted for **Ichini** might be? Please take a moment to read my post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11265628&postcount=655), as I already covered some of this ground in greater detail. Let’s take a look at the final vote count > [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*Vote Count: > > Ichini(6): Chronos, Zeriel, AllWalker, Oredigger, ShadowFacts, Storyteller > > Imaginary Fiend(5): Tom Scud, Telcontar, Nanook, Pedescribe, CardinalFang > > Tom Scud(1): Imaginary Fiend > > BillMC(1): Meeko > > Meeko(1): BillMC > > Pedescribe(1): Jimmy Chitwood > > Storyteller(1): Ichini\*\* Sure all of our scum could have made one off votes and the only people on the major cases could be townies but I’m willing to be there are some scum that wanted to blend in with the crowd. As for why I think that the last two have a greater chance, it’s really quite simple because it is already happening today. Last minute votes tend to point towards a scum being saved so the most likely place to look is primarily the person being saved. Let’s say that Story is scum (I’m not saying that but using it as an example) and Shadow has tied up the votes. If he votes for Ichini then he has ‘saved’ IF so now IF draws attention for the scum saving him at the total cost of the town thinking that there is scum in the last group that voted for Ichini. It is an easy tactical move that throws suspicion on a townie but still has the scum blended in with a group of townies. That being said I did get your read through finished before lunch and I didn’t find anything there. I’m about to start on Story. I don’t think that the possibility of scum actions is enough for a vote but I think it makes you two worthy of a read through. Or should I just be picking names out of a hat? > [@Meeko](#): > > Snipped, and Bold is mine. > > Really Digger? > Perhaps you thought if you didn’t read my addition to the IF case, it wouldn’t exist. > > Ironically, this is also more to the point, on what I as saying about manipulation. And this time, I have more invested. > > But, ok, if you want me to Unvote IF. Ya, I read it. No, it didn’t add anything to the case. But I guess I’ll take a vote over me ignoring a case based on yesterDay’s actions of a player that isn’t around to defend themselves. > [@pedescribe](#): > > But it is a case. And a valid one, at that. He was posting a lot, but he never really got involved with anything controversial. And he seemed to be jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon, all while denouncing every case out there as ‘weak’. And I’ve got a gut feeling about him. What can I say the cases were weak. Heck the best case out there netted us a townie. As far as jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon I voted for Meeko because he misquoted someone. That is a fabulous reason early on Day 1 and as far as jumping on the bandwagon it was my first time back to the thread after the weekend. You are right that I joined in on the bandwagon on Ichini. I did not make my own case because I didn’t see any particularly scummy action out of what was presented that other people saw it was the only case that I thought had a chance. Enjoy the gut feeling though I tend to give those out ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/699 "2009-06-22T19:25:51Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > If the scum can’t talk during the day, they would need to communicate stuff like that here. On the other hand, we don’t know whether or not they can, because Mahaloth has declined to comment on that. Snipped. There are many ways I can take this, pede. Do you mind elaborating? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/700 "2009-06-22T19:53:52Z")
> [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > I want to acknowledge in advance just how retarded and ridiculous this might seem at the moment. I’m hoping that it looks better in hindsight. It doesn’t 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=36)