# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1041 "2009-07-01T04:37:47Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Chronos(3): Jimmy Chitwood, USCDiver, Zeriel ScubaBen(2): ShadowFacts, Meeko Storyteller(2): Telcontar, Chronos Still having some minor internet problems, but plan for day to end at 12 Noon Eastern Wednesday, July 1.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1042 "2009-07-01T04:54:45Z")
Crap. Time got away from me as well. Double Crap. You mean to tell me we are this close again? Not to sure if I like the count as is. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1043 "2009-07-01T05:01:30Z")
Guys, my internet time these days is more limited than it once was, even if i do have more free time on my hands. Annoying, but that is how it goes. Out of the vote leaders: **Chronos** , **story** and **Scuba** , the former two are far more likely to be Town. While I have no specific suspicions of Scuba at this stage, Chronos has been overwhelmingly proTown in his play, and story I see as innocent too. I will look over Scuba’s posts, and if I think he is innocent I will try to build a separate case. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1044 "2009-07-01T05:04:16Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > [snip] > > I’m still curious why IF voted the way he did. Now, though, I’m more curious why **CardinalFang** voted for both of the runners-up, who have both claimed plain Town. > [@Meeko](#): > > [snip] > > Is it possible that Cardinal fang is just a false positive, and is actually [no offense Cardinal] a clueless townie? I mean, given our numbers, still, on Day 3, aren’t we going to have townies that become victims of circumstance? > > [snip] > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > [snip] > > I see that **cardinal\_fang** last posted in #966, saying he was away from computer for the weekend. He hasn’t been back to respond to my question in #982, so I’ll ask directly: **cardinal\_fang** , you are the only person to vote to lynch both runners-up. Why did you vote this way? I’m not really sure what I’m defending myself against here. I’ll try to cover all bases. If you are asking me for the reasons I voted as I did, they are outlined in posts [463](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11250673&postcount=463) and [716](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11269724&postcount=716) for Days 1 and 2 respectively. If you are asking if I somehow engineered my vote to end up voting for the runner-up both days, I’ll point out a couple of things: [ul] [li]Day 1: after I placed my final vote, there were 8\* unvotes and or votes prior to lynch.[/li][li]Day 2: after I placed my final vote, there were 17\* unvotes and/or votes prior to lynch.[/li][/ul] In both cases, my votes at the time were not for the runner-up, but for the vote leader (by two votes – three with mine) on Day 1, and for one of the trailers (one vote – two with mine) on Day 2. If you are asking why I voted for folks who have claimed town, I’ll note that they both claimed after **Mahaloth** provided safe aliases to the scum. Both claims came after I voted, and while I did not see **IF** ’s claim until after lynch, I would not have changed my vote if I had. **Chronos** claimed Today, after Day 2 had ended. **Meeko** , please explain how my voting record makes me a “clueless townie?” **Scuba\_Ben** , I see you have posted more since your question so I am not sure if this is still an issue, or if you have further questions. \*\* I counted them as best I could. If I miscounted, please just correct me and don’t jump all over it as a scum tell.\* ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1045 "2009-07-01T05:19:49Z")
Huh. Well, first impression of **Scuba\_Ben** latest posts is that they are fairly wishywashy. The last 2 WoWs were helpful but ultimately lacking conclusions. From what I can tell the last substantial post was [644](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11264947&postcount=644). The final vote seemed like he put equal weight on both **story** and **shadow** , but voted shadow without explaining why. [1019](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11294320&postcount=1019) is sort of what I am talking about. There is a lot of gentle probing for information, but no real conclusions. If I can I will review things closer, and possibly change my vote accordingly. But in the meantime, based only on those who are leading the votes, I will vote for Ben. **Vote Scuba Ben** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1046 "2009-07-01T05:27:57Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > **Meeko** , please explain how my voting record makes me a “clueless townie?” I’m not sure if you understand how I meant this at all. As I meant it, I was countering Scuba’s attack on you. I am not Scum calling you an easy target. Quite the opposite. I mean “” Clueless Townie “” as the following 1. I believe you are town. 2. As town, you are with out information that Scum has. [Clueless as to who is, and who is not Scum.] Given both of these, I simply meant that you were providing a false positive for Scuba Ben’s smudge on you. I believe he is trying to get at calling you scum, and he intends to do it by getting people to look at your votes. I believe you are a victim of circumstance here. Clueless / Innocent / Naive. Not sure any of these words can come out as flattering on the face. Suffice to say, I am not voting for you currently, and my vote is currently on Ben. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1047 "2009-07-01T05:32:02Z")
My first WoW. Wow! > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Wall of words – cardinal\_fang > > [snip] > > Assessment: cardinal\_fang was fixated on the name-claim idea (and so were many other people on Day 1). Fang also had decent reasons for his two votes, so I think the fact that he was the only vote for both runners-up was a false positive. I guess this is good news, but I am still in the dark as to why “voting for the runner-up” is a Bad Thing. I understand if it comes as a result of last-minute vote-juggling and the like to deflect suspicion or cast a throw-away vote for fellow-scum, but these were neither. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > But please note #287 – Fang votes for pedescribe on a weak case, and ShadowFacts does not appear to call him out for this. Also please note #797 – pedescribe votes for Fang on nothing more than a gut feeling, and ShadowFacts has not called him out for this. > > [snip] I believe you reference this in the **SF** WoW, but to be clear: you are calling out **SF** for his strong assertion in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11237235&postcount=181), followed by his failure to “follow his own advice?” I am not agreeing/disagreeing either way at this point, but I want to be sure I understand the gist of your case. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1048 "2009-07-01T06:22:09Z")
There is plenty to think about, but at this time I am not convinced enough to change my vote from Yesterday. **Chronos** has been low-key and more-or-less harmless since he dodged the Day 1 bullet, but a couple of things jumped out at me. From his case against **storyteller** : > [@Chronos](#): > > [snip] > > First of all, his place in the voting patterns, as identified by my program, is scummier than anyone else (though, as I mentioned, not by all that much). **Imaginary Fiend** , however, is as “scummy” as **storyteller** in both day-end vote runs (148-148, 103-103), and “scummier” than **storyteller** in both all-vote runs (160-154, 115-109). > [@Chronos](#): > > And second, his position on the whole name-claim thing looks bad to me: He was basically silent on it before the rule-change, when it really would have hurt Scum, but then became its biggest proponent after the rule-change, when it at the very least wouldn’t be nearly as good. > > [snip] This sounds familiar to me. The Day 1 name-claim position is a key point in my case against **Chronos** , which he has downplayed, yet is using in his case against **storyteller**. This strengthens my previous convictions. **vote Chronos** In any event, given the tight leaderboard, it will be interesting to see how the last-minute voting goes in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1049 "2009-07-01T06:35:22Z")
By the way, where _is_ **Imaginary Fiend**? These [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11286224&postcount=971) [posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11289061&postcount=986) (essentially content-free) are his only contact since 6/22 (Day 1), AFAICT. You there, **IF**? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1050 "2009-07-01T10:37:46Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > By the way, where _is_ **Imaginary Fiend**? These [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11286224&postcount=971) [posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11289061&postcount=986) (essentially content-free) are his only contact since 6/22 (Day 1), AFAICT. > > You there, **IF**? Good question! It would suck if IF were scum flying under the radar. I really think Chronos is innocent. it’s a feeling based mostly on having seen him play before; this feels very like when he was innocent in crimson glyph. I encourage town to think about looking elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1051 "2009-07-01T11:53:06Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > I really think Chronos is innocent. it’s a feeling based mostly on having seen him play before; this feels very like when he was innocent in crimson glyph. I encourage town to think about looking elsewhere. Just in case I haven’t made by opinions clear, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1052 "2009-07-01T11:57:49Z")
Replying to cardinal\_fang: I don’t have a case on you at the moment, except to prove that we haven’t heard much from you this Day. What drew my interest was that you were the only person to vote for both runners-up, so that merited special attention. At present, I think that observation was a side issue. So all I ask of you is, please participate more Tomorrow. To which: **Mahaloth, due to the holiday weekend, please change Dusk on Day 4 to Friday July 10.** I see I have the all-important-red-herring third vote. I’ll try to stop by later and talk people out of it, but in case I don’t have time to name-claim, I have to vote in self-defense: **Vote Chronos** Sorry buddy, but I’m never going to learn to analyze through to well-supported conclusions if I don’t Live long enough in a game. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1053 "2009-07-01T11:59:14Z")
NETA a follow-up to Telcontar and AllWalker: If you truly believe Chronos is Town, please make a good case for someone other than him or me, and I’ll withdraw my vote on him. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1054 "2009-07-01T12:50:45Z")
The biggest problem in a quiet game like this is that we have very little to go on. I am normally against it, but it’s starting to look like “Lynch the lurkers” and “Lynch the non-voters” might end up being a better strategy than is typical–especially the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1055 "2009-07-01T13:12:26Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The biggest problem in a quiet game like this is that we have very little to go on. I am normally against it, but it’s starting to look like “Lynch the lurkers” and “Lynch the non-voters” might end up being a better strategy than is typical–especially the latter. If you want to lynch the non-voter you should join me over here against story who, despite making several meta posts today, has managed not to vote for anyone, make a coherent case, or even comment meaningfully on anyone else’s cases. Or IF, but that lurker would probably come up town. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1056 "2009-07-01T13:18:20Z")
**Telcontar** makes a good point on **storyteller**. **Chronos** and I have voted, but story hasn’t. Let’s make this a free-for-all: **Unvote Chronos** , whom I think is more likely to be Town than… **Vote storyteller** I reserve the right to shift my vote back to Chronos out of self defense. I doubt anybody is going to come up with a good case for a new candidate as we approach Twilight. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1057 "2009-07-01T13:20:19Z")
I think I am currently tied for the vote lead. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1058 "2009-07-01T13:21:28Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > If you want to lynch the non-voter you should join me over here against story who, despite making several meta posts today, has managed not to vote for anyone, make a coherent case, or even comment meaningfully on anyone else’s cases. Ah, bite me, buddy. Real sorry I haven’t come up with quality analysis like this: > [@](#): > > I really think Chronos is innocent. it’s a feeling based mostly on having seen him play before; this feels very like when he was innocent in crimson glyph. I encourage town to think about looking elsewhere. But I’ve been trying to actually, you know, play the game. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1059 "2009-07-01T13:24:49Z")
Actually, looks like I am in the vote _lead_, in fact for some of the stupidest reasons imaginable. I am so frustrated I’m tempted just to let you people speed-lynch me. But instead: \*\*MY NAME IS JOHN LOCKE I AM A DETECTIVE\*\* Please unvote me. I have attempted two investigations, one of pedescribe (Night One) and one of Telecontar (Night Two). Both failed. I was not told in either case why they failed. I think someone is role-blocking me and is unlikely to ever stop, so I’m basically worthless as a power role anyway. This blows. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1060 "2009-07-01T13:26:11Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Just in case I haven’t made by opinions clear, I agree. I third this notion. [if thirding is an option.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=54)