# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1161 "2009-07-02T14:57:24Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Sheesh! The first two games I was in, there was a haunted bar at night. Where’s the booze on this island? 😕 [ghostly]Doooooonnnn’tttt driiiiinnnnkkkkk theeeeee ruuuuuummmmmmmmm!!![/ghostly] ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1162 "2009-07-02T16:17:18Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Pass the mead. Trapper Keeper, or 5 Subject? [Yes. I know. Then again, do they still even make Trapper Keepers? Or am I showing my age, or lack thereof?] ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1163 "2009-07-02T16:23:01Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Holy crap. Town went crazy. > > What a mess. Insane Meeko Idea 1 : What if we don’t discuss anything for a day and just Vote? In this way, we wont talk people off of voting for X or Y, and in that way, Scum can’t continue their same plan of attack. – It can’t be any worse than what we are doing now anyway. Insane Meeko Idea 2 : What if we Vote tommorow, for someone we have NEVER voted for yet this game? If we are that wrong with things, perhaps we should totally mix it up. Then again, We have lost what, 5 out of 20, right? And all of those people have been vanilla town, right? I mean, that’s pretty good, considering, right? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1164 "2009-07-02T17:10:08Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > And to return the favor – the thread title is Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath. In every game that I’ve followed, a psychopath is a PFK role; the pro-Town equivalent is _Vigilante_. How do we know your role isn’t Psychopath? The temper is certainly there. Well, it would seem that your mind is made up about me as well. **Always the fisher, aren’t we?** Apparently, you are implying that I am a Psychopath / Vigilante. Further, you are trying to smudge me, or my character, here, at Night of all times. \*\* I’m not going to have that. \*\* How do we know I’m not a Psychopath? Because I am Town. If I were the Vig, wouldn’t I have had to have shot last night? 😕 PFK: **Really?** I’m Meeko. you really think I can pull that off? :eek: Thanks, I guess. But Seriously: Thanks for painting that false Bullseye on my back. But, since I know I’m not, I guess I will get the last laugh if and when I die, and Scum finally realize they wasted an NK on me. The fact of the matter is simply this: There are much better targets still out there. Further: You say “” The temper is certainly there. “” Do you mean Sawyer’s or Meeko’s? Because I’m just as lost with what you mean, if it is either. The only person I really see with a temper here, frankly, is Jimmy Chitwood. He goes off each time as If I do something different, **even though my play style remains the same**. Different from the norm, but, remaining the same. Or is he going to criticize that I don’t have a play style, or that I can’t be strategic, even though simply posting, over lurking proves him wrong over both? At the same time, he wants me to play more. But, he also wants me to shut up. I can’t figure that out. Even further :: I’m not the best with the Canon, and I never said I was. IIRC, we have had people die already, that \*\*should \*\* have had special powers, that did not. Again, I am going off of what other people have said. I can’t deny that people have put Sawyer in the list of possible Vigs, but my point is, **there is a list.** Not that Mahaloth [No Offense] is really sticking to that list, as we have seen. But, in spite of that, all the attention remains on me. \*\* It’s weird, I mean I am town, and I thought that the entire game, knew that.\*\* I would even bet, sight unseen, that people over in the forbidden thread are all like “Wow, Meeko Claimed, and is Town again? He hasn’t changed one bit from Crimson, has he?” But, Scuba Ben is still here, Fishing and Smudging, **AT NIGHT**. Let’s **WIFOM** some on that. \*\* Is It possible to Re-FOS Ben? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1165 "2009-07-02T17:18:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Insane Meeko Idea 2 : What if we Vote tommorow, for someone we have NEVER voted for yet this game? If we are that wrong with things, perhaps we should totally mix it up. I was sort of thinking about that… But is there anyone you haven’t voted for already, **Meeko**? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1166 "2009-07-02T18:00:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I was sort of thinking about that… But is there anyone you haven’t voted for already, **Meeko**? You ? Me ? But, Uhm, lol I’m not sure. Then again, I would have to make to Tommorow before I could vote. Hopefully I can figure it out before then, if I make it to then. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1167 "2009-07-02T18:11:00Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\* > It’s weird, I mean I am town, and I thought that the entire game, knew that.\*\* How could we possibly know that, **Meeko**? and don’t say ‘because I claimed to be town!’. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1168 "2009-07-02T18:46:35Z")
I think that the entire game strongly suspects that **Meeko** is Town, at least strongly enough that we all have better targets to go after. But we don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1169 "2009-07-02T19:02:13Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > How could we possibly know that, **Meeko**? and don’t say ‘because I claimed to be town!’. Because Mahaloth gave Scum aliases after I claimed. If this doesn’t prove that names were perfectly aligned to canon, I don’t know what does. Further, no one else has claimed Sawyer. So. I am not saying “because I claimed to be town!”. I am saying “Because I claimed Sawyer!” 😉 But, Ok. Given when I did claim [I was leading the vote count that day, if you recall]\*\* it would not be possible for scum to claim. \*\*Otherwise, we would have a scum dead already. (Either they claim to be scum, and we kill them outright, or, they claim a name that someone else has, and we would probably lynch them that day, or the next.) – And to cover a question I am anticipating: Claiming now does not work. We have Scum aliases out and about. This would negate any advantage in claims, now. **My claim is true, and it works precisely because the claims can’t work now.** Again, it’s the exception that proves the [added] rule. – Totally different question: Is it possible, that Telcontar and Pede are both scum, – But a type of scum that the Cop can not successfully investigate? Alpha Others? [Thats the power role I’m thinking of, right?] ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1170 "2009-07-02T19:31:18Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > How can you – indeed, any player – tell the difference between me posting my role PM and a plain Town role PM posted upthread? Should anybody answer that issue well, I’ll post my role message. 😕 😕 😕 Only **AFTER** we tell you how tell you the difference between _your_ role, and a generic _used_ role upthread, will you post your role?! Look at it the other way: After we tell you how to modify and clean up your scum role, you will post it? **No Dice.** Further, the entire premise of the question is off. This is not Silence of the Lambs, there is no quid pro quo here. The “Should anybody answer that issue well, I’ll post my role message” proves to me that you are not Vanilla. \*\* You are hiding something. You want us to tell you how to continue to hide it. You also want to look inside how we think. Therefore, you know we will not question your role once you change it, and post the changed role. \*\* Scum like you have already given town enough rope to hang themselves. We don’t need anymore rope. Thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1171 "2009-07-02T19:33:16Z")
Usually, the way such a power role works is that the Detective gets an answer of “town”, not that they get no answer. And usually, there’s at most one such character. There wouldn’t be much point in having a Detective at all, if half the Scum were undetectable. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1172 "2009-07-02T19:33:22Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Because Mahaloth gave Scum aliases after I claimed. If this doesn’t prove that names were perfectly aligned to canon, I don’t know what does. > > Further, no one else has claimed Sawyer. > > So. I am not saying “because I claimed to be town!”. I am saying “Because I claimed Sawyer!” 😉 > > But, Ok. > > Given when I did claim [I was leading the vote count that day, if you recall]\*\* it would not be possible for scum to claim. \*\*Otherwise, we would have a scum dead already. (Either they claim to be scum, and we kill them outright, or, they claim a name that someone else has, and we would probably lynch them that day, or the next.) ## You’re leaving out the possibility that Scum could claim a name that no one has (there are a vast number of characters from this show), in which case we’ll never know until they’re dead. I’m not saying I don’t believe your claim, I’m just trying to get you to see your situation from the eyes of a townie who doesn’t trust any claims until they’re confirmed or dead. > [@](#): > > Totally different question: > > Is it possible, that Telcontar and Pede are both scum, – But a type of scum that the Cop can not successfully investigate? Alpha Others? [Thats the power role I’m thinking of, right?] Typically those kind of roles (alpha scum) are set up so that they investigate as Town, but not that they provide no investigation result at all. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1173 "2009-07-02T19:45:02Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > You’re leaving out the possibility that Scum could claim a name that no one has (there are a vast number of characters from this show), in which case we’ll never know until they’re dead. I’m not saying I don’t believe your claim, I’m just trying to get you to see your situation from the eyes of a townie who doesn’t trust any claims until they’re confirmed or dead. From what I have read about Sawyer, I don’t think that Sawyer would be a name that Mahaloth would leave out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1174 "2009-07-02T20:12:46Z")
He probably wouldn’t have left it out. But are we completely, 100% certain that he wouldn’t have left it out? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1175 "2009-07-02T20:33:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He probably wouldn’t have left it out. But are we completely, 100% certain that he wouldn’t have left it out? Pause the game for a second. So this circular logic is NOT \*\*WIFOM \*\*? Unpause the game. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1176 "2009-07-02T23:23:50Z")
Meeko: Mafia is, fundamentally, a game of probabilistic guessing. It is UNLIKELY that a mafia would do as you did and claim “Sawyer” when it was entirely possible that a town player would have the same name. It is, however, not impossible that a mafia would do so. For example: 1.) Mahaloth may have distributed aliases to the mafia some hours prior to informing town (thus the mafia had safe names when you claimed). 2.) You could have feared that you were heading for a lynch and decided to roll the dice on a claim, especially since you could have pulled a “I mean I’m the OTHER Sawyer” if someone voiced a contradictory claim. 3.) “Sawyer” could be your real name but you represent a third party faction (serial killer). At the moment, I count you as “likely town” because none of the above seem especially probable (I worry about 2 sometimes). Having said that, you’ll only be “definitely town” once the moderator tells us you are. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1177 "2009-07-03T00:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > 2.) You could have feared that you were heading for a lynch and decided to roll the dice on a claim, especially since you could have pulled a “I mean I’m the OTHER Sawyer” if someone voiced a contradictory claim. I was considering that possibility, too, but he clarified which one he meant fairly quickly after the initial claim: He said he was Sawyer in [post 327, at 11:17 EDT](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11245068#post11245068), and then clarified that to James Ford in [343, at 1:53 EDT](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11245668&postcount=343), with only about half of the players posting in between. Between that, and the fact that I would be surprised if Sawyer weren’t in the game, I don’t think that the chance that Meeko is Scum is worth worrying about (despite still being nonzero). ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1178 "2009-07-03T00:48:57Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > At the moment, I count you as “likely town” because none of the above seem especially probable (I worry about 2 sometimes). Having said that, you’ll only be “definitely town” once the moderator tells us you are. I worried about “Other Sawyer” as well. Waaay up thread I mentioned that I was concerned about there being two Sawyers. It is why I wasn’t as quick with the “My character and allignment match” as I could have been. I Wasn’t sure, given that Cannon calls for Two Sawyers. Again, don’t flatter yourself thinking that Meeko could pull off PFK. Rest assured, I am a Survivor / Town. Man I wonder if I don’t have one foot in the grave already. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1179 "2009-07-03T13:32:13Z")
The long wait until dawn ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1180 "2009-07-03T14:08:46Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > The long wait until dawn ☹ You take this time to FOS someone. You know, like I did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=60)