# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/121 "2009-06-11T18:39:21Z")
Paul’s suggestion of revealing whether our names and alignments match up seems reasonable, so I’ll go ahead and confirm that, based on a quick google and no prior knowledge of the show, my name and alignment seem to match up. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/122 "2009-06-11T18:48:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*Characters are drawn from all seasons of the show, possibly including some who have come and some who have left. \*\* \*\* All seasons? really dude? Why didn’t you warn us about potential spoilers? I haven’t seen season 5 :P\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/123 "2009-06-11T18:50:25Z")
I rather like that idea too actually. And I can confirm that my alignment and character match. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/124 "2009-06-11T18:58:13Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > \*\* > All seasons? really dude? Why didn’t you warn us about potential spoilers? I haven’t seen season 5 :P\*\* \*\* I don’t want character names and so forth to become the “ostracization” equivalent for this game(read the Crimson Glyph game if you want to see what I’m talking about). Please don’t get obsessively focused on the complicated natures of the characters on lost. It really is not something to get all hung up on. Characters on the show Lost are frequently morally ambiguous, switching being doing what is right and what is wrong. Our Lost characters in Lost Mafia, however, can not be ambiguous about what side they are assigined, at least not in a simple game. This is a fairly simple Mafia game. Everybody is either Town or Scum and I more or less tried to put the characters where they usually seem to be. Don’t get hung up on it forever. The Lost aspect of it is for fun. :)\*\* ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/125 "2009-06-11T18:58:25Z")
[COLOR=Black]I have Googled and I honestly can’t tell if mine matches. It could, I guess. However, I’m note sure I should have to research it to this level of detail, given the ground rules (not to mention I’ve absorbed a pretty heavy dose of spoilers and I hope to watch this show some day). I am all for hunting scum, but my understanding is that the “Lost” theme is for colour only. \*\* Mahaloth, while knowledge of the show is not required, does knowledge of the show confer an advantage?\*\*[/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/126 "2009-06-11T18:59:51Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > [COLOR=Black]I have Googled and I honestly can’t tell if mine matches. It could, I guess. However, I’m note sure I should have to research it to this level of detail, given the ground rules (not to mention I’ve absorbed a pretty heavy dose of spoilers and I hope to watch this show some day). I am all for hunting scum, but my understanding is that the “Lost” theme is for colour only. > \*\* > Mahaloth, while knowledge of the show is not required, does knowledge of the show confer an advantage?\*\*[/COLOR] NETA: Cripes, **Mahaloth** , you read minds? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/127 "2009-06-11T19:05:50Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > [COLOR=“DarkRed”]\*\* > Our Lost characters in Lost Mafia, however, can not be ambiguous about what side they are assigined, at least not in a simple game. > > This is a fairly simple Mafia game. Everybody is either Town or Scum and I more or less tried to put the characters where they usually seem to be. Based on this, a mass name claim might well be productive. Though possibly game-breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/128 "2009-06-11T19:09:16Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The show has a pretty long list of characters – much longer than 17. It would not have been difficult for Mahaloth to give everyone a name. Fair enough I figured **Nanook** was giving a fairly comprehensive list. > [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > How would a mass claim help the town at this point or at all? I’m not convinced that it would work to our advantage. If anything, it would give valuable information to the scum (like who would be more like to be a cop, doctor, etc.) > > The situation is this: The scum will know which players aren’t scum. Scum with half a brain would realize that since the “character name” information is private, they can claim to be whoever they want or just another generic Joe Hologram and we’d never know the difference. > > All the scum would have to do is wait until a feckless townie posts a useful name and then Google something up or post a generic title. Then, they have that person murdered and we’re down a townie. A mass claim is too easily manipulated to be useful to us. > > Let’s please not line up like lambs to the slaughter on Day 1. I like to divide us into groups to make my looks backs a little easier to do. But even if the town claimed 100% truthfully, doubtful in the case of power roles, then the scum would have to lie. However they lie part of the town will pick up additional members. The group with the additional members will have a greater portion of scum then the town at large. The problem comes with the power roles either they lie and both them and scum will be in a larger proportion in that given group then in the town as a whole or they tell the truth and are open to be targeted by the scum. If we believe that they power roles are either non-existent or not very powerful then it could be useful to risk them to shrink our pool to hunt scum. Not to mention mass claims are a great way to get people to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Imaginary\_Fiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f6c823/32.png) [@Imaginary\_Fiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imaginary_Fiend)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/129 "2009-06-11T19:25:50Z")
Says **Nanook** : > [@](#): > > What manipulation do you think they could do? If they claim a name that someone else has, this is a good thing. If they try and google a random name from the show, they’re just asking to get counter claimed, which is again a good thing. And why are you so desperate that we not even discuss it? Are you worried that we’ll go through with it? Why is that I wonder. It makes me suspicious. To be clear, I don’t have any problem discussing possible solutions, including this one. I’ll be glad to enter into a less reactionary dialogue about the suggestion with you with the caveat that I’d prefer we don’t consider implementation until some time later in the game when it might match a more traditional role claim. That being said, I believe that “name claiming” is a really flawed idea. To respond to your suspicions, I have to point out that I don’t think it should seem too odd when one vociferously warns against an idea they believe is flawed, especially (as I had in my original post that addresses the matter – post #100) when they’ve provided reasons why they believed the idea is flawed. I admit, my tone wasn’t particularly collegial, but when I considered the implications of the suggestion, I had an immediate response against the idea that wasn’t well planned. I apologize if I seem to have overreacted. As others have made clear, the Town isn’t likely to learn anything useful from name claiming if the character names have been randomized. I don’t think we need to belabor the point. If the character names haven’t been randomized, we run the risk of lining up our town power positions for slaughter as their character names will hint at their abilities. More so, because the name information is private, anyone can claim to be anyone else. This can be manipulated endlessly for the benefit of the scum, who already know more about us than we know about them (ie they know we’re townies). All this follows from one axiom: _As Town, we have an incentive to tell the truth; as Scum they have an incentive to lie_. In all cases wherein we might consider information of this nature, we must keep in mind that the very first thing a scum player will do is consider how to distort the truth. Let’s take the name duplication topic as a point of discussion: “Ah, ha,” you say, “the scum run the risk of duplicating a name! We’ll catch 'em in their lie!” Well, no. What will actually happen is going to be dependent on the order in which the claims are made. It’d be perfectly possible for the scum to post first with a fake name and then enter into a long, drawn out “No, I’m X!” argument with someone that we’d never be able to resolve objectively, because all we know is that someone posted a name and then someone duplicated that name. Our own human impulses might even lend more credence to the scum using this tactic simply because they posted first. Or, contrarily, it could be that they wait until everyone else posts and then pulls other names from a pool that they see on Wikipedia. Let’s face it, _Lost_ has an ensemble cast and several of us haven’t seen but an episode or two. Minor characters could easily slide under the radar. Or, hell, they could go for the knockout and do both. We don’t even know how many scum there are, so the permutations could be as complex as a four-person variation wherein the first claims and gets into an argument (posting first) then sacrifices the second for the good of the scum (posting later, “obviously” posting well after a Townie) and this is used to draw our limited attention away from scum 3 and 4 who slip in under the radar while everyone’s arguing with scum 1 about why scum 2 needs to be lynched. But all that’s an aside. My point is that just because we can’t envision the exact scenario they might use doesn’t change the fact that the system is highly vulnerable to one or more persons willing to be dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/130 "2009-06-11T19:27:17Z")
\*\*We are currently at 14/17 confirmed. I would guess, based on who our final three are, that they will confirm within the next 12 hours or so. Assume Day One is starting on Friday, June 12 at Noon EDT. I am trying to use dark red to make my posts easy to locate for everyone, by the way. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/131 "2009-06-11T19:29:20Z")
There wasn’t a third page when I started my post. My role and alignment seem to match from a quick search of IMDB. To be completely honest I was talking about a role claim along with name to help divide us up but it seems like just names may do the trick as well. I do think it’s interesting that **Meeko** and **IF** both started trying to turn an idea into me being scum. I think **Meeko** may just be his regular overzealous self but something about they way **IF** didn’t call be scum but asked if anyone though I was being scummy seems off to me. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/132 "2009-06-11T19:29:23Z")
Look at everyone Editing. I mean, we are too busy talking about window dressing on the windows, and the door is wide open. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/133 "2009-06-11T19:31:06Z")
> [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > Says **Nanook** : > > “Ah, ha,” you say, “the scum run the risk of duplicating a name! We’ll catch 'em in their lie!” Well, no. What will actually happen is going to be dependent on the order in which the claims are made. It’d be perfectly possible for the scum to post first with a fake name and then enter into a long, drawn out “No, I’m X!” argument with someone that we’d never be able to resolve objectively, because all we know is that someone posted a name and then someone duplicated that name. It’s perfectly possible to sort this out objectively: if the first person claiming the name Goody McTwoShoes turns out to be town after he’s lynched, then the second person is scum. Trading one town for one scum is a good trade, particularly on days 1 and 2. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/134 "2009-06-11T19:32:19Z")
BTW my last post inadvertently made it look like Imaginary Fiend was putting words in Nanook’s mouth, which is not accurate, just an artifact of where I clipped. ---
**Author:** ![Imaginary\_Fiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f6c823/32.png) [@Imaginary\_Fiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imaginary_Fiend)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/135 "2009-06-11T19:51:57Z")
**Tom Scud** says: > [@](#): > > It’s perfectly possible to sort this out objectively: if the first person claiming the name Goody McTwoShoes turns out to be town after he’s lynched, then the second person is scum. Trading one town for one scum is a good trade, particularly on days 1 and 2. A 50% chance of catching one or two scum who go the visible route will be cold comfort to all our power roles who will face NK after NK. God help us if we face this proposition for two scum claiming false names and we choose wrong the first time for both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/136 "2009-06-11T19:53:26Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > There wasn’t a third page when I started my post. > > My role and alignment seem to match from a quick search of IMDB. > > To be completely honest I was talking about a role claim along with name to help divide us up but it seems like just names may do the trick as well. > > I do think it’s interesting that **Meeko** and **IF** both started trying to turn an idea into me being scum. I think **Meeko** may just be his regular overzealous self but something about they way **IF** didn’t call be scum but asked if anyone though I was being scummy seems off to me. I was thinking the same thing. Imaginary Fiend seemed to be asking whether a case against you based on the idea would fly, which is a scummy sort of way of phrasing it. > [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > To reiterate my not-as-lucid-as-I’d-have-liked-it-to-have-been post a few minutes ago, a mass name claim is areally bad idea because it is much too vulnerable to manipulation by the scum. We really need to take the idea off the table. > > On a related topic, just how scummy is it to suggest such an idea? I noticed Meeko had an opinion. Anyone else want to discuss? Still, it’s only one data point. I’m not especially concerned with meeko though, he’s just being a bit more restrained than last game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/137 "2009-06-11T19:54:46Z")
Further : \*\* Isn’t Name Claiming fishing? \*\* I mean, If I couldn’t “”“Fish”"" on day 1 in Crimson, how can we name claim on night 0 ? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/138 "2009-06-11T19:56:35Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Further : > \*\* > Isn’t Name Claiming fishing? \*\* > > I mean, If I couldn’t “”“Fish”“” on day 1 in Crimson, how can we name claim on night 0 ? Fishing in what sense? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/139 "2009-06-11T19:57:27Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Still, it’s only one data point. I’m not especially concerned with meeko though, he’s just being a bit more restrained than last game. I’m working on it. IS it working? I recognize that I am at a DEFINITE disadvantage having next to no clue about LOST. I would want to do something as ““Meeko”” and not as well, my role. Yet, given the way the game is going right now, I might back into something, one way or another. Meanwhile, _I_ am trying to balance the two, in a way that works best for all. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/140 "2009-06-11T19:59:18Z")
> [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > “Ah, ha,” you say, “the scum run the risk of duplicating a name! We’ll catch 'em in their lie!” Well, no. What will actually happen is going to be dependent on the order in which the claims are made. It’d be perfectly possible for the scum to post first with a fake name and then enter into a long, drawn out “No, I’m X!” argument with someone that we’d never be able to resolve objectively, because all we know is that someone posted a name and then someone duplicated that name. Our own human impulses might even lend more credence to the scum using this tactic simply because they posted first. Or, contrarily, it could be that they wait until everyone else posts and then pulls other names from a pool that they see on Wikipedia. The traditional way to handle order is to use a random even that is easy to check on, say the total score of tonight’s baseball games. That way the scum don’t have as much of an advantage. > [@Imaginary\_Fiend](#): > > Let’s face it, _Lost_ has an ensemble cast and several of us haven’t seen but an episode or two. Minor characters could easily slide under the radar. Or, hell, they could go for the knockout and do both. More then likely they will do both which would allow some scum to fly under the radar initially but if we are able to catch one of them we would still be way ahead in hunting the other scum. Our other option is have all of them fly under the radar while we find another way to hunt them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=8)