# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1421 "2009-07-08T03:16:11Z")
Storyteller, your opinion on a Doctor? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1422 "2009-07-08T03:29:09Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > This has been **“Inside how Meeko’s ADHD brain works.”** We now return you to your regularly scheduled MAFIA game. \ How many people with ADHD does it take to change a lightbulb? 2 to change the bulb, and … ooh, shiny object!\ ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1423 "2009-07-08T04:05:43Z")
OOG I thought it was How many people with ADHD does it take to change a lightbulb? Do you want to go ride bikes? oog ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1424 "2009-07-08T04:29:47Z")
Well, that was a lot to absorb, but I can’t really add anything that hasn’t already been mooted (sorry **Scuba\_Ben** ). I’ve actually learned a lot about the game mechanics wrt the possible scenarios. I’ll summarise my thoughts: [ul] [li] **AllWalker** ’s breadcrumbs need to be treated seriously. Town detective types are a powerful pro-town weapon (duh), and the only real information we have comes after death. **AllWalker** was a town Lie Detector, and he left posts that are as close to fact as we are going to get. That alone clears **story** and **Chronos** for me (and this from someone who built a case and voted for **Chronos** twice). To those who question the crumbs: why? What kind of crumbs should we be looking for, outside of what was provided? He surely would not have shuffled off without leaving any. Of all the windmills to tilt, why nitpick this? [Just to be right](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11312363&postcount=1287)?[/li][li]There is no doctor, based on the claims. So, what happened on Night 2? [Zeriels](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11314877&postcount=1350)’s post seems to summarise, although the wildcard is **pede** ’s exact role. The “paranoid doctor” business is all supposition at this point as he only claimed role-blocker. **pede** needs to show up and post more details.[/li][li] **Shadow** ’s defence[leans heavily](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11315067&postcount=1362) towards the “why would the game be designed like that” position (esp. since we still do not know if **pede** is claiming more than a vanilla roleblocker). Since I do not have a lot of Mafia experience, I can’t comment, but it doesn’t really resonate with me.[/li][/ul] So, I’ll cast an incredibly brave 8th vote for the leader :):rolleyes:: \*\*Vote ShadowFacts **[COLOR=Black] I am looking at this wimpy post after three hours of reading and wish I had more insight (I even took a crack at anagram-hunting, to no avail). I will make a point of checking in prior to end of Day.[/COLOR]** \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1425 "2009-07-08T04:43:25Z")
Cardinal : In light of Allwalker being Lie Detector. What are you saying about Chronos? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1426 "2009-07-08T06:25:31Z")
Vote Shadow I blocked him, and people didn’t die. It seems logical enough. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1427 "2009-07-08T06:34:58Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Vote Shadow > > I blocked him, and people didn’t die. It seems logical enough. Ah crap. Unvote Shadow I’m not worth this. Storyteller is right. I was trying to cover my ass, but Shadow claimed to be protected, and how would he know that unless he was? Full PM: > [@pedescribe](#): > > You are Jack Shepard > > There was a terrible air plane crash. > > You don’t remember a lot about the actual crash, but when you awoke, you were lost on an island. You have recently begun to socialize with the other survivors, but you don’t really know them all that well. You have a very strong feeling that some of the people with you are…evil, and may not have even been on the plane. You have no idea who they are, but you do know that you will not feel safe until they are dead. > > Additionally, you are a Paranoid Doctor. You do not trust any of these people and yet, you know some are good and some are bad. You want to help the good, but fear the bad a lot. > > Powers: > > 1. Every Night, you may protect one person. They will receive a PM indicating that when they awoke the next Day, they felt “vague sense of protection” > 2. However, because you are paranoid, every person you protect will also be role blocked, losing their Night Action(if they have one). If their power was attempted, they will receive a vague PM indicating that their power failed for some reason. > > You are a Survivor, this game’s version of Town Incidentally, the reason I was laying low Day 3 was that I was hoping that Shadow Facts would have claimed to be blocked, so I could accuse him dramatically. But then I got busy, and then I was afraid that people would be mad for avoiding the thread, so I avoided more and…it all snowballed. Stupid lizard brain. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1428 "2009-07-08T12:12:21Z")
Less than 4 hours to go, and it is entirely plausible that Shadow is Town also. Either pede defended Shadow against a Scum kill, or pede blocked Shadow and obstructed the kill. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1429 "2009-07-08T12:52:43Z")
Well, thanks for coming completely clean, **pedescribe**. Probably too late at this point, though. This train is rolling! BTW, I will post some final thoughts before I get the noose, so you can look back on them after I am confirmed. They won’t be breadcrumbs, but they might be helpful. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1430 "2009-07-08T13:25:03Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Ah crap. > > Unvote Shadow > > I’m not worth this. > > Storyteller is right. I was trying to cover my ass, but Shadow claimed to be protected, and how would he know that unless he was? > > Full PM: > > Incidentally, the reason I was laying low Day 3 was that I was hoping that Shadow Facts would have claimed to be blocked, so I could accuse him dramatically. But then I got busy, and then I was afraid that people would be mad for avoiding the thread, so I avoided more and…it all snowballed. Stupid lizard brain. OK, pede. You and Meeko are the only two people (sorry, Chronos) who I trust more-or-less absolutely in this game. What are _your_ thoughts? I am open to lynching someone other than ShadowFacts, if there is a compelling argument for such an action. I was planning to review Day One and analyze Day Two from the standpoint of assuming that you and Meeko are definitely Town, and we’ll see what comes up, but where are you leaning? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1431 "2009-07-08T13:47:53Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Ah crap. > > Unvote Shadow > > I’m not worth this. > > Storyteller is right. I was trying to cover my ass, but Shadow claimed to be protected, and how would he know that unless he was? > > Full PM: > > Incidentally, the reason I was laying low Day 3 was that I was hoping that Shadow Facts would have claimed to be blocked, so I could accuse him dramatically. But then I got busy, and then I was afraid that people would be mad for avoiding the thread, so I avoided more and…it all snowballed. Stupid lizard brain. Okay. I’m still wondering why you didn’t block him again night 3, it’s the obvious move, but at least you’ve finally really claimed. unvote pedescribe I think we need to all remember that being town, and especially being confirmed town, does not give you license to act in an anti town manner. You are still obligated to attempt to be coherent, to give reasons for your actions, and to answer questions. So before this mess my FOS was on Scuba. Not sure if Scuba is scummier than shadow at this point though. Going to reread the last Day and come back with a vote in a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1432 "2009-07-08T13:54:32Z")
\*\*Vote Count: ShadowFacts(8): Storyteller, ScubaBen, Chronos, Zeriel, USCDiver, Meeko, Jimmy Chitwood, CardinalFang, Storyteller(1): ShadowFacts\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1433 "2009-07-08T14:24:56Z")
What is this nonsense? Oh, I guess _nobody’s_ scum in this game, right? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1434 "2009-07-08T14:33:42Z")
Well, THAT puts a whole new spin on things, **pedescribe**. Frankly, \*\*Shadow’s \*\*self-defense REEKS of scum desperation. I’m not seeing anything else that’s even close to that scummy out there. I have to concur with \*\*Telcontar \*\*here–being a power role doesn’t excuse anti-town behavior, up to and including being misleading about your role when it’s relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1435 "2009-07-08T14:36:11Z")
This smells like more bullshit. I’m glad I checked in. As far as I’m concerned, **pedescribe** , **Shadow** , **story** , and **Telcontar** all look bad here. Presumably they aren’t all scum, since that would be pretty stupid, but I’d bet on a couple at least. It’s a little too convenient that an hour before the deadline we’ve got another clusterfuck on our hands, and on a quick reread I don’t see where the **ped** - **story** - **Shadow** shaggy dog story is verifiable by anyone outside the triumvirate. I don’t care what I said **AllWalker** ’s crumbs were previously, this is a Sherlock Holmes eliminate the impossible scenario. If **pedescribe** and **Shadow** are both Town, and I know I’m town, and I believe **AllWalker** cleared **Chronos** , and **Meeko** is a town vigilante, that’s five. If **Story** is cleared, too, that leaves **Telcontar** , **fang** , **Ben** , **USCDiver** , **Zeriel** , I believe. Which means that in that scenario, in this entire game, coincidentally, town players have unilaterally gone after town players with almost no prodding from the scum, who were content to just sit back, not say much, and let the game play out without any of them ever becoming even a little bit of a target. It’s possible, I guess. It’s also possible that **storyteller** is a liar, **pedescribe** is a liar, and this whole thing is a put-on. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1436 "2009-07-08T14:36:33Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > What is this nonsense? > > Oh, I guess _nobody’s_ scum in this game, right? What if we had a Mafia game and no one was scum? Heh, that’s a great freakin’ idea. I should design a mafia game with no scum and make the win condition “Does town realize that and vote for no-lynch before they kill too many of themselves.” ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1437 "2009-07-08T14:39:47Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > What is this nonsense? > > Oh, I guess _nobody’s_ scum in this game, right? At the rate we’re going, I fear a shutout. I’d like to think that my game play has improved these last two Days. But as I seem to be many players’ #2 choice, I have to leave my vote on Shadow out of self-defense. Should I survive Dusk, I would appreciate positive and constructive commentary to improve my play, to find a way to say “Hi all!” without getting accused of Scummy behavior, and to correctly identify Scum. The only people I trust at this point are our three Roles. My record on finding Scum is abhorrent, so I don’t have a reason to suspect any of the other seven players more than each other. If I remember correctly, **Chronos** is “believed confirmed.” So I have six players grouped together as suspect, and I have no ranking amongst them. Pursuant to MafiaScum ethics, I do not publish a suspicion rating on myself. AOP: **Zeriel** , in Farmer/Rancher Werewolf, that was in fact the endgame situation: There were no Scum left, but the role PMs implied that only one of the two groups could win – and the Town voted to no-lynch at the end, and had a Town-wide victory with equal numbers of surviving Farmers and Ranchers. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1438 "2009-07-08T14:44:54Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > This smells like more bullshit. I’m glad I checked in. > > As far as I’m concerned, **pedescribe** , **Shadow** , **story** , and **Telcontar** all look bad here. Presumably they aren’t all scum, since that would be pretty stupid, but I’d bet on a couple at least. It’s a little too convenient that an hour before the deadline we’ve got another clusterfuck on our hands, and on a quick reread I don’t see where the **ped** - **story** - **Shadow** shaggy dog story is verifiable by anyone outside the triumvirate. I don’t care what I said **AllWalker** ’s crumbs were previously, this is a Sherlock Holmes eliminate the impossible scenario. This is why I’m voting to kill \*\*Shadow \*\*at this point–if he’s scum, we have a lot of confirmations and none of the following is really relevant. If he’s town… You know, I’m actually concerned–if \*\*story \*\*and \*\*shadow \*\*both got a “protection” PM, and we assume one or both is not lying…has there ever been such a thing as a scum doctor/paranoid doc? Protect against vigilantes, have a useful alibi, etc? Now, \*\*Story \*\*claimed to have received the same message as **Shadow**. I don’t know how that affects what we’re seeing here but it does imply that the roleblocker that’s been hitting him post night one and the “doctor” are two different people. I have the nagging fear that there’s something about this setup we don’t understand at all. I mean, it is Lost, after all. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > AOP: Zeriel, in Farmer/Rancher Werewolf, that was in fact the endgame situation: There were no Scum left, but the role PMs implied that only one of the two groups could win – and the Town voted to no-lynch at the end, and had a Town-wide victory with equal numbers of surviving Farmers and Ranchers. I know, I helped set that up by being an F-or-R investigator that refused to play along. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1439 "2009-07-08T14:50:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > What if we had a Mafia game and no one was scum? > > Heh, that’s a great freakin’ idea. I should design a mafia game with no scum and make the win condition “Does town realize that and vote for no-lynch before they kill too many of themselves.” So random player dies every night? You should give the town multiple cops 😛 > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > This smells like more bullshit. I’m glad I checked in. > > As far as I’m concerned, **pedescribe** , **Shadow** , **story** , and **Telcontar** all look bad here. Presumably they aren’t all scum, since that would be pretty stupid, but I’d bet on a couple at least. It’s a little too convenient that an hour before the deadline we’ve got another clusterfuck on our hands, and on a quick reread I don’t see where the **ped** - **story** - **Shadow** shaggy dog story is verifiable by anyone outside the triumvirate. I don’t care what I said **AllWalker** ’s crumbs were previously, this is a Sherlock Holmes eliminate the impossible scenario. > > If **pedescribe** and **Shadow** are both Town, and I know I’m town, and I believe **AllWalker** cleared **Chronos** , and **Meeko** is a town vigilante, that’s five. If **Story** is cleared, too, that leaves **Telcontar** , **fang** , **Ben** , **USCDiver** , **Zeriel** , I believe. > > Which means that in that scenario, in this entire game, coincidentally, town players have unilaterally gone after town players with almost no prodding from the scum, who were content to just sit back, not say much, and let the game play out without any of them ever becoming even a little bit of a target. It’s possible, I guess. > > It’s also possible that **storyteller** is a liar, **pedescribe** is a liar, and this whole thing is a put-on. Well, I think we have a problem in that the most anti town actions are being undertaken by players that we basically know are town. For example, pedescribe’s activities today would make for an absolutely great case against him, but we probably do have a doctor/jack in the game and no one has counter claimed so he pretty much must be town. This reminds me of Zeriel back in the Split - logic told me he was town and I thought he looked guilty anyway :-P. At this point, Shadow looks guiltiest, more for how he responded to story/pedescribe and his arguments against chronos than the missed kill. Looking back over the last several days, I think he’s was a scum laying low who got carried away in the last Day and tripped himself up. Let’s fry him and see if we’re right. **vote shadow** ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1440 "2009-07-08T14:52:57Z")
I forgot you were in that game, **Zeriel** – seeing as how I got eaten on Night 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=73)