# Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337 "2009-06-10T15:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1661 "2009-07-13T04:29:16Z")
Thanks for the PMs, **Zeriel** and **Telcontar**. I guess they’re the same as everyone else’s after all. Which incidentally does make **USCDiver** look a little more suspicious… It seems odd that every vanilla Town except one would have the same PM. I don’t think that’s enough to base a vote on. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1662 "2009-07-13T04:51:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks for the PMs, **Zeriel** and **Telcontar**. I guess they’re the same as everyone else’s after all. Which incidentally does make **USCDiver** look a little more suspicious… It seems odd that every vanilla Town except one would have the same PM. I don’t think that’s enough to base a vote on. Well FWIW, apparently his character was not on the plane, so the “terrible air plane crash” colour would not apply, but I will defer to the _Lost_ experts. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1663 "2009-07-13T05:20:01Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > This was in reference to my claim Yesterday. You believed me then and all of a sudden now you don’t? Make up your mind. This is simple enough. If you are scum, you have two Roles. I believe the Cleaned up Role you have, not the Scum Role you have. Don’t force the cleaned up role, into where the Scummy role is living. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1664 "2009-07-13T14:11:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks for the PMs, **Zeriel** and **Telcontar**. I guess they’re the same as everyone else’s after all. Which incidentally does make **USCDiver** look a little more suspicious… It seems odd that every vanilla Town except one would have the same PM. I don’t think that’s enough to base a vote on. > [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > Well FWIW, apparently his character was not on the plane, so the “terrible air plane crash” colour would not apply, but I will defer to the _Lost_ experts. Well, unless we want to go back to the “the scum characters are the less important/later characters” logic. I don’t know the show well enough to know if that held up at all. Did it? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1665 "2009-07-13T14:32:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks for the PMs, **Zeriel** and **Telcontar**. I guess they’re the same as everyone else’s after all. Which incidentally does make **USCDiver** look a little more suspicious… It seems odd that every vanilla Town except one would have the same PM. I don’t think that’s enough to base a vote on. Actually, considering that **Mahaloth** said this: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. I am issuing a PM role description to go with the aliases as well. There was no generic “Survivor” role PM, so read nothing if people have minor differences, which I’m sure they do. I should have done this in the first place, but did not. I’m equally suspicious of the players who all have claimed precisely the same PM. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1666 "2009-07-13T14:42:59Z")
I sat on this a big longer than I should have. I moved off of it, because Tel provided actual reasons for his vote. [I should talk here, i know] What is the possibillity that Telcontar is scum, but, wanted me to form the Diver bandwagon, then jump on it? Telcontar, nothing personal, but if I were Scum, I would have NK’d you first night, just for the irony. Perhaps, the real irony here, is that you are scum. Yet, you threw in the “I don’t want to die on night 1 again” bit… because it was a nice neat little, convenient package for scum flavored telcontar. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1667 "2009-07-13T14:50:42Z")
At the same time, if I had to vote immediately between JUST Telcontar and Zeriel, it would be Zeriel. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1668 "2009-07-13T15:06:14Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I sat on this a big longer than I should have. I moved off of it, because Tel provided actual reasons for his vote. [I should talk here, i know] > > What is the possibillity that Telcontar is scum, but, wanted me to form the Diver bandwagon, then jump on it? > > Telcontar, nothing personal, but if I were Scum, I would have NK’d you first night, just for the irony. > > Perhaps, the real irony here, is that you are scum. Yet, you threw in the “I don’t want to die on night 1 again” bit… because it was a nice neat little, convenient package for scum flavored telcontar. I almost voted in my initial post (the one that prompted your vote), but I was holding back because I was hoping that someone else would post with an utterly brilliant case against someone else. I’m a bit gun shy at this point in the game based on our poor luck in actually killing scum; we’ve all spent a fair bit of time being wrong. When you prodded me a bit I decided that I really should put my vote where the case was; I always have the option of changing it if something more ironclad comes along. Besides, if I were scum they’re be no advantage in casting the second vote for **diver** over casting the first vote. Based on my initial post, I’m clearly “responsible” for the **diver** case and I don’t get any “hiding” points for being the second as opposed to first vote. What do you think of Jimmy’s exchange with Chronos? I’ve had mixed reads on Jimmy all game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1669 "2009-07-13T17:18:46Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > I’m a bit gun shy at this point in the game based on our poor luck in actually killing scum; we’ve all spent a fair bit of time being wrong. When you prodded me a bit I decided that I really should put my vote where the case was; I always have the option of changing it if something more ironclad comes along. No no Tel, I’m right with you here. I perhaps over vote, instead of being gun shy. That’s perhaps why, most of my votes are less reasoned than they can be. Wow, if you have mixed reads on this game, how do you think I feel? Telcontar, as with Chronos, we did all play Crimson together, so in that sense, I do know you better. [Yes, it was short, but, on what you provided, you have sound logic.] As always, I am not playing my best game, if I don’t disclose an angle I see, that someone else can play. I reserve the timing, but still, the basis in fact, is that is possible for you to still be scum. The irony here between the two games, is too rich for me to ever completely shake off. This might be good, this might be bad, for my play. Regardless it is honest. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1670 "2009-07-13T17:42:25Z")
Here’s the players I have as all having claimed the exact same vanilla townie post: **[del]Imaginery Fiend[/del]** #467 - known vanilla townie; first to post the PM \*\*Chronos \*\*#976 - possibly confirmed by **Allwalker** \*\*Scuba\_ben \*\*#1202 - posted 7/3 **Jimmy Chitwoo** d #1644 - posted 7/12 at 4:53pm \*\*Zeriel \*\*#1649 - posted 7/12 at 10:15pm **Telconter** #1650 - posted 7/12 at 10:38pm **cardinal\_fang** #1653 - posted 7/12 at 10:48pm I find it interesting that the last three players all were willing to post their PM so soon after Chronos and I called for it when they hadn’t done so before AND it was was in such quick succession AND that they’re all exactly the same. I also find it odd that I was the only one given a non-crash victim role (ie someone from a later season). I can see where some of you might find that suspicious, but let me ask you this: if I were scum and had been collaborating with my fellow scum throughout the game, don’t you think that we would have either all used the same vanilla PM (as I’m sure the scum above have done) or we would have all used different ones to sow confusion? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1671 "2009-07-13T18:30:24Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Here’s the players I have as all having claimed the exact same vanilla townie post: > > **[del]Imaginery Fiend[/del]** #467 - known vanilla townie; first to post the PM > \*\*Chronos \*\*#976 - possibly confirmed by **Allwalker** > \*\*Scuba\_ben \*\*#1202 - posted 7/3 > **Jimmy Chitwoo** d #1644 - posted 7/12 at 4:53pm > \*\*Zeriel \*\*#1649 - posted 7/12 at 10:15pm > **Telconter** #1650 - posted 7/12 at 10:38pm > **cardinal\_fang** #1653 - posted 7/12 at 10:48pm > > I find it interesting that the last three players all were willing to post their PM so soon after Chronos and I called for it when they hadn’t done so before AND it was was in such quick succession AND that they’re all exactly the same. > > I also find it odd that I was the only one given a non-crash victim role (ie someone from a later season). I can see where some of you might find that suspicious, but let me ask you this: if I were scum and had been collaborating with my fellow scum throughout the game, don’t you think that we would have either all used the same vanilla PM (as I’m sure the scum above have done) or we would have all used different ones to sow confusion? Wow, you’re weird. You’re smudging players for…posting their PMs when you asked them to? WTF mate. You did catch that Mahaloth gave the scum fake names and fake role PMs, right? Every player has a nice shiny role PM direct from the source. Personally, i saw that all the role pms looked the same for awhile thus i saw no reason to post my (identical) pm until it was requested. I don’t think your role PM should weigh against you unless someone wants to argue that your character name is clearly one that was added to the game late. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1672 "2009-07-13T18:33:03Z")
They’re not identical. Some end in periods, some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1673 "2009-07-13T18:50:37Z")
For the record, I’m not drawing any conclusions about **Telcontar** or **Zeriel** based on their PMs. If they had PMs that were different from those of the fuselage survivors, and especially if they were different from each other, that might have been the basis for some conclusions, but as it is that appears to be a dead-end. Nor do I find the timing at all suspicious: They posted them when they came online, and just happened to have come online at the same time. Even if there were some nefarious Scum coordination between posting them, that would still be limited by when they happened to come online. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1674 "2009-07-13T21:18:12Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I also find it odd that I was the only one given a non-crash victim role (ie someone from a later season). I can see where some of you might find that suspicious, but let me ask you this: if I were scum and had been collaborating with my fellow scum throughout the game, don’t you think that we would have either all used the same vanilla PM (as I’m sure the scum above have done) or we would have all used different ones to sow confusion? You were not the only one given a non-crash victim role. **AllWalker** was Miles Straume, also a freighter passenger along with Daniel Faraday. If I were inclined to meta-game the roles, I would actually consider this to be more of a mark against Diver than for. Two roles from a later season, one Scum and one Town - one of which is the Detective - would create a bit of confusion. I’m not sure I am inclined to meta-game, though. One interesting thing is that of the many possible pairings of players - Sun and Jin, Boone and Shannon, Rose and Bernard, Nikki and Paolo, Michael and Walt (players who in the continuity of the show knew one another before their arrival on the island), we have to date seen only one of each pair. In other words, in the continuity of the show, no two confirmed Town roles have ever known one another off-island. If Diver is telling the truth, Miles and Daniel would be the very first exception to this rule. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1675 "2009-07-13T23:43:15Z")
Story, do you have an active vote? Did you want to still press on BillMC / Diver, per your theory on my first day votes? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1676 "2009-07-14T02:50:41Z")
By the way, everyone, most of the Day has passed, and half of the non-weekend portion of the Day, but we only have a third of the people with votes on record. The last-minute vote scramble that we keep seeing doesn’t help anyone but the Scum. Change a vote later if you need to, but give us something to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1677 "2009-07-14T03:18:55Z")
True enough. I was waiting to see if I needed to get more indignant about anything, but it is getting late. My case is a pretty straightforward one. In post 1294 I indicated that I didn’t like **Zeriel** ’s posts 1279, 1281, and 1283, and that I thought the interaction between **ShadowFacts** and **Z** was fishy. The key point there was that **Zeriel’s** initial posture toward the reveal of **AllWalker** ’s role was, I thought, an attempt to use that information in a way that reflected an ulterior motive. **Zeriel** ’s response was that he just got ahead of himself and missed that there had already been a discussion about the subject. Which fair enough. On a reread of that entire episode, the knowledge that **pedescribe** was what he said, and **Shadow** wasn’t, doesn’t change at all the impression that I got from **Zeriel** ’s reaction (although it doesn’t help my opinion of myself much. What can you do?). Second, there’s the really mundane observation that, accepting the semi-confirmed as Town and, armed with the knowledge that I am town, there’s a pretty small pool in which all the scum must be found, and **Zeriel’s** in that pool. Third, there’s a general lack of hand-dirtying that, in my only other experience with Mafia, was exactly the kind of chord I attempted to strike as a Werewolf – voting kind of late, challenging a handful of people in very slightly inquisitive ways, not posting much at the beginning of the day, etc. This, again by a very simple process of elimination, seems to me that it must be the activity that the scum are engaged in. Despite my unease about the way the end-of-day has been playing out in this game, and despite the sinking feeling I was talking about that there’s more to this than meets the eye, the simple and elegant explanation that **Chronos** and **Story** have been taking me to task for rejecting is, at this point, Town’s best bet. Which means that since somebody has to be scum, it’s the ones that are laying low who need to be scrutinized. I think **Zeriel** ’s net contribution is the most strongly suggestive of an ulterior motive. **Vote Zeriel** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1678 "2009-07-14T03:28:00Z")
Let’s jump in here. Jimmy, You are voting Zeriel. Do you have comments on Zeriel calling me a spaz, repeatedly? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1679 "2009-07-14T03:40:25Z")
\*\*Vote Count: USCDiver(2): Meeko, Telcontar Jimmy Chitwood(1): Chronos Zeriel(1): Jimmy Chitwood \*\* ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337/1680 "2009-07-14T03:45:43Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > They’re not identical. Some end in periods, some don’t. Hmm, I did not notice that. When I saw mine I thought I had just missed the period when cutting/pasting, but when checking the original PM, sure enough, no period. Is this significant? On closer inspection, some of the PMs use “terrible air plane crash” while others use “terrible crash” as the opener. Also, none of them appear to have a period after the name: You are Foo Bar Except for [**Zeriel**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11333076&postcount=1649)’s. Scratch that, [**Meeko**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11307865&postcount=1240)’s also. I suspect none of this means anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/499337.md?page=85)