# LOST: Season Six 2-Hour Premier 2/2 (6.1/6.2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422 "2010-02-02T18:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/341 "2010-02-06T16:31:33Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I don’t necessarily have a problem with the island sinking, but if it was a sudden sinking or involving anything seismic, I would expect the barracks and such not to have still been as intact as they were shown. As I said in another thread, the underwater cgi scene made it look as if the valley holding the barracks had been slowly filled by damming a river. We know the island can move. Who’s to say it can’t move downward? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/342 "2010-02-06T17:10:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We know the island can move. Who’s to say it can’t move downward? It would explain how a certain slave ship wound up in the middle of the island. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/343 "2010-02-06T17:26:26Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > So, we’ve got corpse-Locke on the beach, alternate-Locke in his wheelchair in LA, and Esau-Locke badassing around. > > I think they should generate an additional Locke in every episode, more Locke! More Locke? [Something to do with time…](http://www.badscience.net/wp-content/Tm_morlock.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/344 "2010-02-06T22:46:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We know the island can move. Who’s to say it can’t move downward? I don’t think we know that, beyond moving through time, which is different than just shifting to a different physical location but not shifting through time. The only people who have used the phrase “move the island” have proven to be untrustworthy and known for telling only partial truths for manipulative effect (Ben and whoever was wearing the skin of Christian when telling Locke to turn the wheel) or were parroting what was said by those who have proven to be untrustworthy and known for telling only partial truths for manipulative effect (Locke). ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/345 "2010-02-06T23:43:03Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I don’t think we know that, beyond moving through time, which is different than just shifting to a different physical location but not shifting through time. The only people who have used the phrase “move the island” have proven to be untrustworthy and known for telling only partial truths for manipulative effect (Ben and whoever was wearing the skin of Christian when telling Locke to turn the wheel) or were parroting what was said by those who have proven to be untrustworthy and known for telling only partial truths for manipulative effect (Locke). Didn’t the elderly Eloise Hawking use a Foucault pendulum to determine where the new (physical) location of the island was? [Link to a webpage](http://www.sl-lost.com/2009/01/27/foucault-pendulum/) with a screenshot of the map on the floor with tracings made by the pendulum. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/346 "2010-02-06T23:56:16Z")
I think Eloise falls squarely into the “proven to be untrustworthy and known for telling only partial truths for manipulative effect” camp. But I don’t pretend to know how a Foucault pendulum works or if the pendulum in the show functioned that way. Other circumstantial evidence against the idea that the island was moved to be underwater was that in all of the ‘movements’ we have seen even though man-made structures came and went depending on temporal context, the island seemed to retain the same basic size and shape and relative proximity to the ocean around it. If detonating a nuclear bomb next to the Mystery Pocket is what it takes to move the island down a few hundred feet, everything I’ve offered is moot. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/347 "2010-02-07T00:03:51Z")
Correcting myself… The Black Rock’s placement on the island does indicate that the island rose up slowly beneath it as opposed to materialize in the same 3D space, but I don’t trust that we have yet been given anywhere near all of the details of the moving mechanism that will be made available by the end of the show. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/348 "2010-02-07T01:21:43Z")
Didn’t we literally SEE the island move at the end of season 4? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/349 "2010-02-07T01:51:03Z")
I don’t know what we saw happening at the end of season 4, but I do realize that I have been smoking crack at worst and over-simplifying at best who or what is or isn’t apparently moving in my previous posts. People have been moving through time on the island after Ben turned the wheel to make it twitch, though only once has any time-shifting occured since Locke turned righted the twitchy wheel. Depending on whether or not the island physically moved at all between the earliest timeframe experienced the time-travelers and the point at which the tanker blew up and the island disappeared, the time-travelers were potentially moving through time as well as 3D space. If the island didn’t physically move during that timeframe, the time-travelers were only moving through time. The assumption I’ve been operating under (which very well may be false) is that the island doesn’t just move physically from Point A to Point B, but moves physically and temporally from Point A at Time 1 to Point B and Time 2. I have been parsing the suggestion that the island was simply moved below the surface of the water somehow in the same timeframe, ala Point A (above water) to Point B (below water), but I realize now that probably isn’t what is being suggested. I also now realize that there is nothing necessarily incompatible with the A/1 to B/2 movement theory (other than the elevation observations with submerged as the outlier) and a submerged island sitting under the flashsideways flight 815. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/350 "2010-02-07T04:19:47Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > In the alt-timeline, is it meant to be mysterious that Jack knows Desmond from somewhere? Jack and Desmond met in Los Angeles as shown at the beginning of Season 2. Did the time-lines diverge before September 22, 2004, and now that meeting never happened, so the only source of Jack’s feeling is the “real” timeline? This annoyed the shit out of me. The start of the ‘answers’ series begins with me shouting 'Of course you know him! You’ve met! Long before you went to the island - you should remember. He called you brother then. Why can’t you bring that to mind?! Maybe I’m a simpleton, but this just seemed deliberately antagonistic on the writers behalf. MiM ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/351 "2010-02-07T04:55:55Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > This annoyed the shit out of me. The start of the ‘answers’ series begins with me shouting 'Of course you know him! You’ve met! Long before you went to the island - you should remember. He called you brother then. Why can’t you bring that to mind?! > Maybe I’m a simpleton, but this just seemed deliberately antagonistic on the writers behalf. > > MiM Like I said before, with everything changed around, it’s quite possible that Desmond never trained for the race. Even if Widmore made it off the island, it’s highly implied that he set up the race to get someone to end up on the island. If he knew it sank he would never have held the race. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/352 "2010-02-07T08:26:22Z")
You know, maybe I’m different from other people, but I don’t remember every single 5-minute conversation I held with a stranger three years ago. Maybe I’ll remember the guy if I see him again, and maybe I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/353 "2010-02-07T13:07:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know, maybe I’m different from other people, but I don’t remember every single 5-minute conversation I held with a stranger three years ago. Maybe I’ll remember the guy if I see him again, and maybe I won’t. This may be beside the point, but we are led to think that Jack remembered the conversation; it was a flashback which I guess is meant to have carried some importance for the person. I can see that the ‘reset’ may not have put Desmond in training and therefore have met Jack, but then why would Jack have the deja vu of knowing Desmond? We in the UK had the 2 new eps on Friday 5th of Feb - when did the US have them? MiM ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/354 "2010-02-07T13:20:30Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > This may be beside the point, but we are led to think that Jack remembered the conversation; it was a flashback which I guess is meant to have carried some importance for the person. It’s not as if people either remember something or they don’t - it depends on \*when \*they remember something. Ask me today if I remember a conversation I had 5 years ago and I might not; ask me tomorrow and I might. Jack was unusually focused the first time he went down the hatch, after a month or so on the island. It’s very likely the Jack of that timeline would remember things the Jack of this one wouldn’t. Of course, you may be right. After all, if the island was destroyed in 1977 then Charles Widmore went down with it, which means Penny - if she was even born - had a very different life; for one, she wouldn’t have a father to reject Desmond and force him to go to the army, then jail, and then a cruise around the world. Oh, and the Americans got to see them on the 2nd. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/355 "2010-02-07T18:39:34Z")
We know that Jack would recognize Desmond after meeting him the one time in the stadium, because he recognizes him when he first gets into the hatch, and Desmond is holding him at gunpoint. My assumption was that they’d never met in the stadium in the flashsideways world. WRT Richard, and it being ‘good to see him out of those chains:’ Everybody seems to be assuming that this means that Richard came to the Island as a slave on the Black Rock, but I took it to mean that FLocke was congratulating him on becoming a ‘free man,’ no longer Jacob’s flunky and emissary to the Others. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/356 "2010-02-07T18:41:37Z")
I also thought it was metaphorical chains that Flocke was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/357 "2010-02-07T19:16:35Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > WRT Richard, and it being ‘good to see him out of those chains:’ Everybody seems to be assuming that this means that Richard came to the Island as a slave on the Black Rock, but I took it to mean that FLocke was congratulating him on becoming a ‘free man,’ no longer Jacob’s flunky and emissary to the Others. Thoughts? I don’t know why Richard is thought of as a slave on the Black Rock. As Flocke stated in the finale of S5, Jacob had lured many ships to the island. The Black Rock is simply one which our Losties came across. I definitely get the impression that Flocke wasn’t referring to a development in the near-present (i.e. pre- and post-Jacob), but since their last meeting which was probably a loooong time ago. Isn’t the (broken) statue supposed to be that of Osiris? Maybe, Flocke, Jacob & Richard are all ancient spirits subject to some curse and Richard was a chained slave in his mortal days, and Flocke hadn’t seen him since then. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/358 "2010-02-07T20:38:51Z")
It was [Taweret](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Taweret), the Egyptian goddess of birth, fertility, and the northern sky. Before the statue was mostly destroyed, she carried an ankh, the symbol for eternal life, like the one in the guitar case that Jacob gave Hurley. I’ve never gotten a supernatural vibe from Richard. Yes, he’s ageless, but other than that, he doesn’t appear to have special knowledge, and we’ve never seen him do anything particularly amazing. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/359 "2010-02-07T21:22:46Z")
I would be stunned if Richard did not arrive on the Black Rock _literally_ in chains. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422/360 "2010-02-07T22:14:54Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I would be stunned if Richard did not arrive on the Black Rock _literally_ in chains. Me too. Some times Lost can have metaphors and deeper meanings. I don’t think this is one of those times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-season-six-2-hour-premier-2-2-6-1-6-2/527422.md?page=19)