# LOTR: Fell Beast Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593 "2003-12-07T19:36:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/21 "2003-12-09T15:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pugluvr \* > … **In the chapter, “The Siege of Gondor”, it seems certain that Sauron’s forces indeed have the secret of the fire of Orthanc.** … And Gandalf, of course, has his fireworks. Just like Saruman to think he’s the only incarnate maia to have discovered this little trick. Thanks for this, Blake: “Not only pteranosaurs but turtles, platypuses…” If I picture hairless flying platypuses next time I read the book, it’s your fault. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/22 "2003-12-09T20:02:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > ME dragons are definitely not beaked since Smaug’s teeth are mentioned quite a few times. > > However that doesn’t make the fell beasts particularly birdlike. As **MrDibble** has pointed out other animals have beaks as well. Not only pteranosaurs but turtles, platypuses, octopuses and mythological creatures like gryphons. Only the gryphon has an even vaguely birdlike head. There are lots of ways for a creature to have a beak without looking like a bird. Which I guess means a) the Fell Beasts are not dragons, b) they may or may not be birdlike (or platypus-like). ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/23 "2003-12-09T20:19:09Z")
I think there had to have been at least 10 of the fell beasts. Legolas shot one, and the Witch King was riding one when Eowyn killed it (and him). But in the confrontation at the Black Gate, aren’t the remainder of the Nazgul flying around on fell beasts? Yeah, I know, I should remember. But I’ve been noncorporeal for so _long_ … ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/24 "2003-12-10T14:49:19Z")
At the black gate > [@](#): > > And out of the gathering mirk the Nazgul came with their cold voices crying words of death; and then all hope was quenched. And later (I’m sure you know when) > [@](#): > > At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgul, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom. So he never says how many, but we (or at least I) certainly assume it’s all of them on “Fell Beasts.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/25 "2003-12-10T15:55:12Z")
> [@](#): > > And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly… Something about that phrase…and the image of Sauron being nurturing… “woood widdle beastie like another gobbet of orc flesh? yes? open wiiiide…goooood widdle beastie!” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/26 "2003-12-10T16:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoCoolUserName \* > So he never says how many, but we (or at least I) certainly assume it’s all of them on “Fell Beasts.” > [@](#): > > “And as they stood, they saw **all** the Nazgul gathered together, hovering above the Towers of the Teeth **like vultures**.” It certainly sounds like there’s 8 Nazzy’s on Fell Beasts. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/27 "2003-12-10T16:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chronos_ > The Nazgul’s foremost weapon is fear. Fear and surprise. Their two foremost weapons are fear, surprise, and a fanatical devotion to Sauron… I’m sorry people, but that’s damn funny!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/28 "2003-12-10T23:31:56Z")
Mind, I don’t think that the Fell-Beasts are dragons (a dragon by itself is at least comparable in power to a Nazgul), only that they’re related to dragons. This does not seem inconsistent with Fell-Beasts having beaks while dragons have teeth. For that matter, depending on how one considers a “beak”, the same creature could even have both. And the way the wings are described, they sound rather batlike, rather than birdlike: A membrane stretched between fingers, rather than a single long “finger” at the front of the wing, like birds have. But I don’t think that bats are ever mentioned as being in Middle Earth, so Tolkien couldn’t say “They have bat wings”. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/29 "2003-12-10T23:58:03Z")
Which is why I voted for beaked Pterodons. Oh, nevermind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/30 "2003-12-11T02:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*… But I don’t think that bats are ever mentioned as being in Middle Earth, so Tolkien couldn’t say “They have bat wings”. \*\* The Goblin Army at the end of _The Hobbit_ is described as being accompanied by a swarm (flock?) of bats. In the Silmarillion there is also Thuringwethil, described as being in the form of a vampire bat. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/31 "2003-12-11T03:07:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*The Goblin Army at the end of _The Hobbit_ is described as being accompanied by a swarm (flock?) of bats. In the Silmarillion there is also Thuringwethil, described as being in the form of a vampire bat. \*\* My bad. The Goblin Army isn’t really at the end of _The Hobbit_, but at the battle of Five Armies. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/32 "2003-12-11T04:27:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*My bad. The Goblin Army isn’t really at the end of _The Hobbit_, but at the battle of Five Armies. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/33 "2003-12-11T12:49:43Z")
Uhhh… That was the end of The Hobbit… ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/34 "2003-12-11T16:12:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*so Tolkien couldn’t say “They have bat wings”. \*\* Well, if he had really wanted to be clear he _could_ have said that the shadow about the fell beast reached out like two vast wings.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/35 "2003-12-13T14:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Uhhh… That was the end of The Hobbit… \*\* The Battle of Five Armies occurs two chapters from the end of _The Hobbit_. After the battle you have Thorin’s death scene, Bilbo saying farewell to the dwarves, the return journey with Gandalf and Beorn, another visit to Rivendell, the auction at Bag End when he returns home, and Gandalf and Balin visiting Bilbo years later. I didn’t want some anal retentive type pointing out the obvious to me. Not that there are any people like that on these boards 😃 . ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/36 "2003-12-13T16:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*The Battle of Five Armies occurs two chapters from the end of _The Hobbit_. After the battle you have Thorin’s death scene, Bilbo saying farewell to the dwarves, the return journey with Gandalf and Beorn, another visit to Rivendell, the auction at Bag End when he returns home, and Gandalf and Balin visiting Bilbo years later. > > I didn’t want some anal retentive type pointing out the obvious to me. Not that there are any people like that on these boards 😃 . \*\* Wow. That was subtle. I applaud you, sir. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Matchka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Matchka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matchka)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/37 "2003-12-13T16:55:42Z")
Am I the only one who wonders why Gandalf didn’t just set Frodo on a nonstop eagle from Rivendel to Mt. Doom? Apart from it would eliminate a lot of really good reading… Fell Beasties in the movie look a lot like D&D wyverns. I had always imagined that was pretty much what they were. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/38 "2003-12-13T17:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Matchka \* > \*\*Am I the only one who wonders why Gandalf didn’t just set Frodo on a nonstop eagle from Rivendel to Mt. Doom? Apart from it would eliminate a lot of really good reading… > \*\* There was a thread 'round here that talked about this. I’m not of a mind to wade through the LOTR threads to find it, but the general feeling was that the Eagles aren’t really a taxi service, and wouldn’t go for it. IIRC. The Eagles are a major deus ex machina in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/39 "2003-12-13T18:18:01Z")
The Eagles have appeared suddenly in many threads, arriving unbidden and without warning. Perhaps they deserve their own, if we haven’t already exceeded the statutory limit on LOTR threads. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593/40 "2003-12-13T18:31:17Z")
> [@](#): > > The Eagles are a major deus ex machina in my opinion. Litterally. They are the very litteral servants of Manwe, the king of earthly gods. And they are used many times in the history of Middle Earth in exactly this way: they save Maedros, they save Hurin, they arrive to defeat the dragons in the war of wrath, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-fell-beast-question/217593.md?page=3)