# LOTR (film): how did Gandalf know Frodo would be OK with the ring? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405 "2018-08-28T13:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/21 "2018-08-28T21:42:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Gandalf is nothing like Jesus. If you want to make that comparison Gandalf is akin to a minor angel (Maiar). The Valar would be akin to Arch-Angels (akin to the angels Michael and Gabriel). Melkor would be the devil and Sauron a fallen Maiar (albeit probably the most powerful Maiar) corrupted by Melkor. > \ Actually he is, and I feel pretty strongly that this was not accidental on Tolkien’s part. He isn’t _exactly_ like him, and Tolkien was also adamant that his book was not an allegory in that sense. But it is a very Catholic-informed book. As for your other analogies, those are commonly noted as well, but as I said, there are no one-to-one correspondences. Frodo is as much Jesus as Gandalf is, for example – just a different aspect. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/22 "2018-08-29T03:07:30Z")
I mean, Gandalf sacrifices his life to save someone and rises again, more powerful than he was before. In white robes, no less. It’s hard to say he has no Jesus parallels. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/23 "2018-08-29T09:36:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Also, as noted in the OP, the original plan was for Frodo to take the ring to Rivendale where it presumably would be given to someone else to destroy. Who? Archie Andrews? Jughead Jones? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/24 "2018-08-29T09:42:10Z")
Dang! Ninja’d by **Thudlow Boink**. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/25 "2018-08-29T12:32:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Keep in mind that Smeagol was never a good person. Even before he got the Ring, he was disposed to treachery and cruelty. And even with such raw material to work with, the Ring still never completely corrupted him: If it had, he’d have been at the head of a mighty (but not nearly mighty enough) army marching with righteous fury on the gates of Mordor, where he could be cut down and the Ring retrieved by its owner. Why do you say that? There’s nothing in LOTR itself or The Hobbit to say Smeagol wasn’t a good person before he got the ring. Heck, he was even kind enough to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/26 "2018-08-29T13:18:57Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Why do you say that? There’s nothing in LOTR itself or The Hobbit to say Smeagol wasn’t a good person before he got the ring. Heck, he was even kind enough to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. You mean aside from the murder? Granted, that was on being faced with the ring, but was before he’d even touched it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/27 "2018-08-29T13:58:25Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > You mean aside from the murder? > > Granted, that was on being faced with the ring, but was before he’d even touched it. It was his birthday, it really should’ve been his. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/28 "2018-08-29T14:52:22Z")
I think that it is a big deal that Frodo was given the Ring, as opposed to most who had it by killing or stealing (or both). I think receiving the ring as a (more or less) freely granted inheritance is one step up from simply finding it, as Bilbo did. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/29 "2018-08-29T15:44:25Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > I think that it is a big deal that Frodo was given the Ring, as opposed to most who had it by killing or stealing (or both). > > I think receiving the ring as a (more or less) freely granted inheritance is one step up from simply finding it, as Bilbo did. Bilbo stole the ring. He found it, when it was lost, but he also discovered that the ring “belonged” to Gollum. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/30 "2018-08-29T16:14:04Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Bilbo stole the ring. He found it, when it was lost, but he also discovered that the ring “belonged” to Gollum. From a particular point of view - in another, it was freely given. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/31 "2018-08-29T16:43:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > It was his birthday, it really should’ve been his. Remind me never to come to one of your parties… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/32 "2018-08-29T17:38:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I mean, Gandalf sacrifices his life to save someone and rises again, more powerful than he was before. In white robes, no less. It’s hard to say he has no Jesus parallels. There are ten separate occasions where people in the bible were brought back to life (Lazarus for instance) so being resurrected is not unique to Jesus. Jesus was the son of god/is god (trinty thing). Gandalf is one of many Maiar (basically like low level angels) created by Iluvatar (god). Remember things like the Balrog are also Maiar. So not like Jesus at all. Angels in the bible are not like Jesus. Angels in Middle Earth are not like Jesus either. The Istari, of which Gandalf was one of five, worked for the Valar (Gandalf worked for Manwe/Varda). Indeed they were sent by the Valar and not Iluvatar. Jesus was sent by god so not the same. Jesus died for our sins. Gandalf died fighting a Balrog. So not the same. There is really very little to parallel between Jesus and Gandalf. My guess for the Jesus figure in Middle Earth might have been Tom Bombadil but IIRC Tolkein explicity rejected the notion that Bombadil was Iluvatar manifest in Middle Earth so he is an enigma. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/33 "2018-08-29T17:39:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Who? Archie Andrews? Jughead Jones? I expect Dilton Doily would have been the best candidate to destroy it. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/34 "2018-08-29T18:14:28Z")
I agree with above posters that Gandalf didn’t know for sure, but he did have reasons to think it might be okay and not really any other options. Also he wasn’t quite sure about the ring itself. I do think that ultimately (penultimately?) it was a big deal that Frodo was given the Ring, as opposed to others, most of whom had it by killing or stealing (or both). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/35 "2018-08-29T19:35:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Tolkien also was, for lack of a better term, a pastoralist. He though the best folk, those with the strongest moral fiber, were simple farmers, rooted to the earth and not caught up in international intrigue. Weren’t the Baggins basically upper-class do-nothings their mid-day tea as the most labor-intensive thing likely to impact their day? It’s been a while since I read the things, but I don’t recall the bit where Frodo was out there in the field hoeing wheat every day for 2 months straight. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/36 "2018-08-29T21:06:52Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Weren’t the Baggins basically upper-class do-nothings their mid-day tea as the most labor-intensive thing likely to impact their day? > > It’s been a while since I read the things, but I don’t recall the bit where Frodo was out there in the field hoeing wheat every day for 2 months straight. Well, yes, the lost wheat-hoeing scene. If you think the angry murmurs of disgusted fans angered by the cutting of Tom Bombadil’s scene was something, you should have heard the howls when the wheat-hoeing, mushroom picking, and, of course, beer brewing scenes were cut from the book. Tolkien just threw up his hands and gave up, at that point, burning all evidence that they ever existed. Even his son could not recover a trace, which is why ‘The Silmarillion’ is as short as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/37 "2018-08-30T13:52:54Z")
Just a note for the movie lovers. I can’t speak to any other cities, but in Chicago the trilogy will be in the theater again this coming week. I’m going to see all three in order on Saturday at Regal City North 14. I believe they’re showing the Extended editions but it doesn’t matter to me either way. Fellowship starts at noon. I’m giving up 4 Marvel movies I’ve already paid for, but it’s worth it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/38 "2019-01-31T20:21:30Z")
Gandalf knew Frodo’s character because he was Gandalf: a thousands-of-years-old angelic being, rated as the wisest of those angelic beings. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/39 "2019-01-31T21:05:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There are ten separate occasions where people in the bible were brought back to life (Lazarus for instance) so being resurrected is not unique to Jesus. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405/40 "2019-01-31T21:25:34Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Why do you say that? There’s nothing in LOTR itself or The Hobbit to say Smeagol wasn’t a good person before he got the ring. Heck, he was even kind enough to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. I wouldn’t go that far. This passage is used to describe Smeagol: > [@J.R.R. Tolkien](#): > > The most inquisitive and curious-minded of that family was called Sméagol. He was interested in roots and beginnings; he dived into deep pools; he burrowed under trees and growing plants; he tunnelled into green mounds; and he ceased to look up at the hill-tops, or the leaves on trees, or the flowers opening in the air: his head and his eyes were downward. While this isn’t, explicitly, a condemnation of Smeagol’s character, it’s about as subtle as a brick in terms of symbolism. And then as soon as he has the Ring: > [@J.R.R. Tolkien](#): > > He was very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. This doesn’t exactly speak positively of him either. Sure, now he has the Ring, but the Ring doesn’t change people’s character, it just twists it. We would EXPECT Someone who is inquisitive and curious-minded to use the ring to find out secrets. One would expect it would take some time before they started to be malicious with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-film-how-did-gandalf-know-frodo-would-be-ok-with-the-ring/820405.md?page=3)