# LOTR: Frodo never had a chance to destroy the One Ring. He is shown from the very start he cannot do it **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [July 20, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487 "2024-07-20T10:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/201 "2024-08-02T06:19:44Z")
I wonder how sharp a line we should draw between “The Hobbit” and the rest of “The Lord of the Rings”? LOTR is separate and while they are clearly the same universe with the same characters LOTR seems the more well thought out one while “The Hobbit” was more a children’s book with a less well thought-out world. Things change between the two. I am not sure what can be considered canon unless Tolkien specifically addressed a given issue and answered it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/202 "2024-08-02T06:29:14Z")
In my head, _The Hobbit_ is Bilbo reminiscing about his adventures decades after the fact, possibly in the leadup to his eleventy-first birthday party. It mostly tracks with his memories of the events, but it’s also somewhat exaggerated in the same way that an old guy at the bar would exaggerate his tales of youthful glory to anyone who cares to listen. The wargs might not actually have been talking to each other, but he remembers it as if they were and he exaggerates it for dramatic effect, and maybe Beorn didn’t actually change into a bear so much as he put on a bearskin cloak and went into a rage, and some or all of the Battle of Five Armies might be stuff he made up so the story would sound more impressive. Considering that Tolkien actually worked into the canon that the first edition of The Hobbit was incorrect about how he got the Ring because he was already under its spell at the time and deliberately lied in that version of the text, I think my interpretation works. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/203 "2024-08-02T08:01:41Z")
You don’t have to tell them exactly what they’re carrying. It’s not like they _haven’t_ carried a Ring-bearing Hobbit before… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/204 "2024-08-02T08:06:20Z")
Wouldn’t the Ring take action to try to move itself from the Hobbit to the Eagle? ISTM the Ring was not happy with Gollum and then not happy with Bilbo/Frodo. It would really want to get with almost anything else. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/205 "2024-08-02T08:07:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Wouldn’t the Ring take action to try to move itself from the Hobbit to the Eagle? It didn’t the first time, with Bilbo. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/206 "2024-08-02T10:26:22Z")
Well, it was still getting over cave fever and the end of a long-term relationship. Have a heart! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/207 "2024-08-02T10:29:17Z")
I like this take, makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/208 "2024-08-02T12:10:02Z")
For what it’s worth, The Hobbit also mentions a race of stone giants, some of whom are more or less decent, who make a sport of throwing boulders. I think those are probably more of a mismatch with the rest of the lore than talking wargs are. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/209 "2024-08-02T13:44:29Z")
I think that’s Tolkien’s canon, and he writes about that in the preamble to the Lord of the Rings. Also, at the end of LotR we learn that Frodo wrote that text and also did some editing of the Hobbit. But i think the wargs are real, and i don’t see any problem with them fitting into the world of the Lord of the Rings. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/210 "2024-08-02T13:48:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Wouldn’t the Ring take action to try to move itself from the Hobbit to the Eagle? > > It didn’t the first time, with Bilbo. Gandalf didn’t take the ring when offered. Elrond didn’t take the ring when the ring bearer was totally in his power. Galadrial didn’t take the ring when offered. Faramir didn’t take the ring when the ring bearer was in his power. I agree with @MrDibble , there’s no reason to expect an eagle to forcibly take the ring, either. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/211 "2024-08-02T13:55:14Z")
Isildur did. Smeagol did, killing his cousin in the process. Boromir tried. The odds for an Eagle? uncertain. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/212 "2024-08-02T14:01:43Z")
I don’t think Smeagol was ever a very nice person. His immediate actions after he got the ring were to eavesdrop on his friends and steal from them. Neither Bilbo nor Frodo were so moved. Isildur and Boromir were both ambitious. I don’t think the eagles have a lot of ambition to rule. Is there a risk? Sure. But i think it’s a modest risk. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/213 "2024-08-02T14:44:01Z")
Bilbo did too. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/214 "2024-08-02T15:00:51Z")
Come to think of it, if we’re going to write off the talking wargs as “Gandalf can talk to anything”, couldn’t we do the same for the talking eagles? I don’t think they talk with anyone other than Gandalf, in LotR. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/215 "2024-08-02T15:35:11Z")
Am I remembering correctly that, in _The Hobbit_, the ring gave Bilbo the ability to understand the speech of creatures (giant spiders? birds?)? If so, it makes sense that Gandalf would have a similar magical ability, either by virtue of being a wizard or from the ring he wore. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/216 "2024-08-02T19:44:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The odds for an Eagle? uncertain. Right, it depends on how long.- and if the ring thinks it is gonna be destroyed. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Gandalf didn’t take the ring when offered. Elrond didn’t take the ring when the ring bearer was totally in his power. Galadrial didn’t take the ring when offered. Faramir didn’t take the ring when the ring bearer was in his power. Most of those were a short time. > [@Chronos](#): > > Come to think of it, if we’re going to write off the talking wargs as “Gandalf can talk to anything”, couldn’t we do the same for the talking eagles? Hmm, I think you are right. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/217 "2024-08-02T20:16:13Z")
Frodo stayed in both rivendell and lorien for several days. 🤷‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/218 "2024-08-02T20:17:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Frodo stayed in both rivendell and lorien for several days Sure, but how long did it take Boromir? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/219 "2024-08-02T20:38:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Most of those were a short time. How long do you think it would take a magical Great Eagle to fly from the Great Shelf to Mordor via Rivendell? Versus, say, how long Frodo was in Rivendell (two months) or Lothlorien (1 month). If the Ring wasn’t going to corrupt those Elves in that time, it’s not going to corrupt Manwë’s personal servants in a much shorter time. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Frodo stayed in both rivendell and lorien for several days. Much longer than several days. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, but how long did it take Boromir? Those 3 months + walking time… plus, he’s a Man, and they’re very clearly made out to be the weakest-willed of the Free Peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/220 "2024-08-02T21:01:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Those 3 months + walking time… plus, he’s a Man, and they’re very clearly made out to be the weakest-willed of the Free Peoples. This goes again to how strongly the Ring can influence people when they are only in proximity to it and not in possession of it. It was noted above that the person who possesses the Ring is most strongly affected and distance does not matter. But, the Ring is fickle and can abandon the person who possesses it as it did Isildur and then Gollum. So, did the Ring want to stay with Frodo since it “knew” Frodo was the only one who would try to take it back to Mt. Doom and Sauron? Anyone else (e.g. Boromir) would want to keep the Ring for themselves. Because otherwise, you’d think the Ring would want to be done with the Hobbits and get with someone more powerful that it could really corrupt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=12)