# LOTR: Frodo never had a chance to destroy the One Ring. He is shown from the very start he cannot do it **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [July 20, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487 "2024-07-20T10:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/121 "2024-07-23T16:31:39Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I suppose he could have simply picked Frodo up and tossed him into the fire himself. I don’t think Galdalf could have thrown the Ring in by itself. And I don’t think he could, or at least would, have thrown Frodo in by himself. So why would it become any easier if you put the two together? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/122 "2024-07-23T17:46:31Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I suppose he could have simply picked Frodo up and tossed him into the fire himself. > > Net effect: One destroyed ring. One mind-intact (very briefly) then dead Frodo. One horrified troupe of followers. Hey, you can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/123 "2024-07-23T22:31:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I don’t think Galdalf could have thrown the Ring in by itself. And I don’t think he could, or at least would, have thrown Frodo in by himself. So why would it become any easier if you put the two together? He would not have been able to throw the ring in by itself. Throwing Frodo in, sans ring, would simply have been murder, and done nothing to save the world. If Frodo was holding the ring and refusing to let it go, Gandalf could, JUST possibly, have managed to grab Frodo (without touching the ring himself), and tossed Frodo in. He’s still have felt like (and been) a murderer, but to a beneficial end. I think it would have destroyed him (Gandalf) though. I think the tale ended pretty much as it had to without ruining anyone’s moral center. Gollum was a lost cause - but served the greater good at the end, however inadvertent. One of the things I loved about the movie was the look of utter jubilation on Gollum’s face as he fell (followed by very brief terror as he realized what was happening). ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/124 "2024-07-23T23:05:01Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > IMHO, what would have happened in a happier fork where the Fellowship stood together and got a much less damaged Frodo to Mordor Gandalf would have arranged for Sam to carry the ring to give Frodo a break. Sam would have been able to throw the ring into the fire. Remember, he already had his mini-Galadriel moment: > As he stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, and vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor… > > Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur… He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/125 "2024-07-23T23:40:38Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > If Frodo was holding the ring and refusing to let it go, Gandalf could, JUST possibly, have managed to grab Frodo (without touching the ring himself), and tossed Frodo in. If I am reading this thread right no one, including Gandalf, could destroy the Ring when at the Cracks of Doom. The Ring would be at max power there. Some have suggested Eru gave a little nudge at that point to get Gollum to fall in. Nothing less would suffice (maybe the Valar could have managed but they seemed conspicuously absent). I gotta say the Valar are almost always disappointing. Aloof to the point of absurdity. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/126 "2024-07-24T00:35:12Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > If Frodo was holding the ring and refusing to let it go, Gandalf could, JUST possibly, have managed to grab Frodo (without touching the ring himself), and tossed Frodo in. If it was just a matter of not touching the Ring, why didn’t they carry it in a locked box, or baked inside a hardened lump of clay, or stuck on the finger of Bernie from _Weekend At Bernie’s_? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/127 "2024-07-24T00:48:05Z")
That’s just it - it was never Gollum’s intent to destroy the ring - that was the farthest from his mind. It’s also what ‘allowed’ it to happen - as the Ring could never be destroyed ‘willingly’. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/128 "2024-07-24T01:04:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If I am reading this thread right no one, including Gandalf, could destroy the Ring when at the Cracks of Doom. I have to agree. Gandalf would not have the willpower to toss Frodo or break his mind. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/129 "2024-07-24T01:07:49Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > If Frodo was holding the ring and refusing to let it go, Gandalf could, JUST possibly, have managed to grab Frodo (without touching the ring himself), and tossed Frodo in. No, he’d just put Frodo to sleep, hold his hand over the lave, and using his cloak or something push the Ring off into its doom. Or turn him into a frog, and shove the Ring off with his foot or staff. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/130 "2024-07-24T01:15:29Z")
Or take the Ring from Frodo, try to throw it in, and then realize that he’d put it on instead. It doesn’t work. Frodo couldn’t destroy the Ring, and he was the one person in all of Middle Earth who was closest to being capable of it. Nobody could destroy the Ring. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/131 "2024-07-24T01:18:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Nobody could destroy the Ring. Maybe Sauron itself could do it? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/132 "2024-07-24T01:42:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Nobody could destroy the Ring. Bombadil almost certainly could. Getting him to go to Mordor would be the hard part. I also suspect Sam could have. He did give the Ring back to Frodo without much difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/133 "2024-07-24T01:50:55Z")
Any one Vala probably could have destroyed the Ring, but most of the rest of Middle-Earth would have been destroyed along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/134 "2024-07-24T02:11:48Z")
This seems to be the common wisdom. If the Vala get involved it’s gonna be bad. But I do not understand why. If Manwe or Ulmo or Varda yoinks the ring off of whoever and then tosses it into the Cracks of Doom (or just tosses Frodo with the ring on in) why would Middle Earth be destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/135 "2024-07-24T03:15:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If Manwe or Ulmo or Varda yoinks the ring off of whoever and then tosses it into the Cracks of Doom (or just tosses Frodo with the ring on in) why would Middle Earth be destroyed? Divine intervention by the Valar would be less “one of them shows up and yoinks the ring” than it would be “actual Gotterdammerung”, given Tolkien’s descriptions of what the wars between Melkor and the other Valar were like. I’m picturing countless legions of Noldorin with Manwe himself at the fore laying waste to the entire continent to purge every last trace of Sauron’s corruption regardless of the collateral damage, with men and dwarves and hobbits being trampled underfoot like ants. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/136 "2024-07-24T04:53:30Z")
A thought - Feanor could probably have unmade the ring. It wouldn’t have been easy, and it might have sent him to the Halls of Mandos in the process, but out of all the Free Peoples who ever lived he would be the one most capable of willfully doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/137 "2024-07-24T13:01:15Z")
Sam might conceivably have been able to do it, or at least get as close to being able as Frodo did. But certainly not Gandalf. The more powerful the person, the harder it would get, unless you were talking about someone more powerful than Sauron himself (which couldn’t be anyone but a Vala, since he was the most powerful of the Maiar). Tom Bombadil’s trick wasn’t that he was powerful, nor was it that he was powerless. Rather, he was outside of the entire concept of power. I’m not sure if it’s even meaningful to ask if he could destroy it, because he would not. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/138 "2024-07-24T13:16:21Z")
Yes. It’s the same reason they didn’t leave it with him; he was _indifferent_ to it, constitutionally incapable of caring about it. He would have simply forgotten about it and someone else would have picked it up. He didn’t think like a normal person at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/139 "2024-07-24T13:24:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He would have simply forgotten about it and someone else would have picked it up. He didn’t think like a normal person at all. You know, characters who haven’t met him _say_ that about the guy — but, whenever _we_ actually see him, as far as I can tell he just sort of runs the gamut from ‘asking relevant questions’ to ‘sensibly planning ahead, so he can help people’ to, well, ‘helping people, as anticipated.’ ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/140 "2024-07-27T01:30:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The last time the Valar intervened directly in Middle Earth, they literally broke the World. The Valar might have been the trigger but plunging Numenor under the waves and bending Arda was done by Eru himself. The Valar (working as a team?) had raised Numenor in the first place as a reward to the Edain for allying with the Elves in the later battles in the War of Beleriand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=8)