# LOTR: Frodo never had a chance to destroy the One Ring. He is shown from the very start he cannot do it **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [July 20, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487 "2024-07-20T10:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/141 "2024-07-27T08:09:47Z")
Earlier than that. At the climax of the [War of Wrath](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War_of_Wrath) against Morgoth the Valar sank the region of [Beleriand](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Beleriand#Etymology), a major chunk of the continent. They have a real problem with that “collateral damage” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/142 "2024-07-27T10:42:13Z")
So assume Gandalf gets out of Moria alive. They go see Galadriel, and head down the river. I’m assuming Merry and Pippen don’t get killed and neither does Boromir. Do they go to Gondor? There probably isn’t an answer, since to some extent G was making it up as he went. It would be hard to get Frodo and the Ring away from Denethor, so they’d have to split up, or Boromir leaves them? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/143 "2024-07-27T20:44:30Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’m assuming Merry and Pippen don’t get killed and neither does Boromir. Merry and Pippen survived in the books and film. Gandalf had hinted that the Fellowship was gonna break up with just Frodo and a small support team. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/144 "2024-07-27T21:03:56Z")
Yeah, I mistyped that bit. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/145 "2024-07-29T23:06:54Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Do they go to Gondor? There probably isn’t an answer, since to some extent G was making it up as he went. It would be hard to get Frodo and the Ring away from Denethor, so they’d have to split up, or Boromir leaves them? Would they even go to Gondor? I haven’t read the books in a few years, but I’m sure Boromir would have been happy to play host - but yeah, telling Denethor about this nifty Ring thing, and then leaving, would have been a challenge. The main question, still, is why the hell they didn’t just ask the Eagles to get them into Mordor, or at least close. I’ve never seen a good answer to that. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/146 "2024-07-29T23:22:07Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > why the hell they didn’t just ask the Eagles to get them into Mordor, or at least close. The best one I’ve ever heard is that the Eagles weren’t a taxi service and wouldn’t have been very subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/147 "2024-07-29T23:29:16Z")
There’s also the question of whether an Eagle would have been corrupted by proximity to the Ring, and the issue that flying into Mordor isn’t very stealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/148 "2024-07-29T23:54:15Z")
The latter is the explanation I’ve read in multiple sources, and it makes sense to me. Giant eagles swooping in are immediately noticed, and then the jig is up regarding what their purpose is. Success then depends on an eagle overcoming all the forces of Mordor. Stealth was the only chance, slim as it was. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/149 "2024-07-30T01:55:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > There’s also the question of whether an Eagle would have been corrupted by proximity to the Ring, and the issue that flying into Mordor isn’t very stealthy. Yeah, the Eye of Sauron and the nazgul, not to mention 10000 orcs with bows. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/150 "2024-07-30T02:11:00Z")
I’ve always got the impression that Gwaihir, as an Eagle, and a giant one at that, has a pretty good impression of himself. That kind of ego is what the Ring can play on. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/151 "2024-07-30T11:59:26Z")
Well… [![](https://external-preview.redd.it/owL3xYeHtURI0To7zA2MAZPG5GGldKxA29XcFgCL7E0.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=93b304be9c790db109c4175177510abd5e4e8796) ](https://external-preview.redd.it/owL3xYeHtURI0To7zA2MAZPG5GGldKxA29XcFgCL7E0.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=93b304be9c790db109c4175177510abd5e4e8796) (NB: this is from Oglaf. While this particular one is SFW, most of the other comics on the same site REALLY REALLY aren’t.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/152 "2024-07-30T21:17:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > (NB: this is from Oglaf. While this particular one is SFW, most of the other comics on the same site REALLY REALLY aren’t.) Hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/153 "2024-07-30T21:23:28Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > The best one I’ve ever heard is that the Eagles weren’t a taxi service and wouldn’t have been very subtle. I’ve heard that too but they were very intelligent and I do not see why an appeal that either Gwaihir serves as a Ring/Hobbit bomber or the world ends, including theirs, would not persuade them. It’s just self-preservation at that point and who doesn’t understand that? Whether the Ring would corrupt him is a different question but, presumably, Gwaihir would not be aware of that. If the eagles are too obvious to get into Mt. Doom then they could at least get the Hobbits close and save them a few weeks of trouble and risk and the Hobbits can walk the last few miles. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/154 "2024-07-30T21:28:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Whether the Ring would corrupt him is a different question but, presumably, Gwaihir would not be aware of that. Not just corruption, also the will of Sauron, the nazgul, and 10000 orc with bows. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/155 "2024-07-30T21:29:32Z")
Three big eagles carrying people (assumably Frodo, Sam, and Gandalf) would still be pretty hard to miss. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/156 "2024-07-30T21:31:44Z")
I see it as a WWII problem. The eagles are swooping in fast. Sauron spots them. Can Sauron get his minions into the air and orc air defenses in place before the eagles bomb Mt. Doom with Hobbits? It’s not the sort of thing Sauron would have prepared for (I do not think). ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/157 "2024-07-30T21:36:51Z")
I did always consider that a weaker part of the story, but not of the greater narrative as it were. IE it’s not too troubling in the sense of being part of the hero’s journey, but it’s super irritating in the TT-RPGer in me. My quibble wasn’t about going straight to Mount Doom, because as DrDeth put it: > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, the Eye of Sauron and the nazgul, not to mention 10000 orcs with bows. But, they could have gone straight to Rohan as an example. Obfuscate what was _actually_ going on by what would seem to be a reasonable effort to secure allies, and simultaneously cut down on the immense time and risk spent travelling. No split party (boo again from the TT-RPGer), no unneeded deaths, traumas, or the like. Again though, the narrative demands Frodo suffers heroically, and that others have a chance to doom and redeem themselves, and for all of the characters to grow. Whether the writer of the narrative is JRRT or Eru - well, it doesn’t matter in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/158 "2024-07-30T21:38:02Z")
It’s also a question of where are the Hobbits leaving from on Eagles. And Sauron will be looking for the Ring all the time. The Nazgûl might not be on their winged beasties yet though if the Eagles leave from Frodo’s front door. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/159 "2024-07-30T21:39:06Z")
I think the only chance was for someone to sneak right to the edge of the Cracks of Mount Doom, where there would simply be no time for Sauron to counter. And even that strategy was flawed. A full out air attack that’s identified as soon as it crosses the border (or even before) would be doomed. Sauron would turn his will and all his forces against it, and he’d have plenty of time to do so. Mount Doom is a couple of hundred miles in, right? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487/160 "2024-07-30T21:44:17Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Mount Doom is a couple of hundred miles in, right? Good question but I cannot think it is that far. An average person can walk about 20 miles/day. Maybe a little more but I doubt a Hobbit would do better. That is 10-days at a minimum for Frodo and Sam to walk through enemy territory. They’d probably have to go slower to avoid being caught. That’s a lot of time. And unless they are carrying enough food with them for that long (which would be heavy) they also need time to forage/scrounge for food and water. (or did their elvish bread provide all they needed?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-frodo-never-had-a-chance-to-destroy-the-one-ring-he-is-shown-from-the-very-start-he-cannot-do-it/1004487.md?page=9)