# LOTR IV... and other possible adventures in Middle Earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701 "2003-12-18T05:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/21 "2003-12-20T03:12:27Z")
Christopher Tolkien takes a lot of flak, but I hope and pray that neither he nor the Tolkien Estate _ever_ allows anyone to write more Middle-earth books so long as they have the legal power to do so. The power of the original books does not need to be diluted. Re: The Hobbit. Jackson wants to do it, New Line wants to do it, McKellan wants to do it. The film rights are caught up in a legal snarl with another studio, though, so it’s going to be a while before it happens. (The earliest they could start is 2006.) ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/22 "2003-12-20T07:27:44Z")
I have to disagree with you there Wumpus. I think there are tons of very very talented fansty writers out there who would love to take a crack at writing in Tolkiens world. And it has been proven it can be done with success. Just look at The Dragonlance books. weiss and Hickman created the world, with it s various ages, and about 90 bucks have been penned. They are not all great (in fact I’m reading about Unkle trapspringer and I want to hurt someobdy ) but the ones that are good, are really great. The stories are ofton time paraell to the main war arcs, and important in their own right. and I think it could well work for Tolkien, more so becasue he left such detailed rules behind. The world of middle earth has a VERY concrete foundation, and as long as a master editor keeps all the works in line with (JRRT’s) vison it should be a wondeful ride. and yes, I’m too lazy to spell check this time of night ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/23 "2003-12-20T07:32:33Z")
I’m fine with waiting until 2006 or later. I don’t think The Hobbit is as good as the others, and as much as I like the story and books, I’m a little _Ring_ed out after two years and three movies. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/24 "2003-12-20T16:21:59Z")
Well, first of all, I’m not sure that pumping out tons of LOTR crap not written by Tolkien dilutes the power of the original. I recently reread “Dune,” and you know what? It still exists. It’s still a pretty good book, despite the fact that as far as I can determine, Frank Herbert’s son has made a career of allowing his old man’s publisher to crap all over his old man’s creation. Y’know what? I don’t have to buy those books. The originals are still in print. Screw 'em. They DO stimulate interest in the originals, though, and I think that’s a good thing. There are people who’d say that Jackson’s LOTR films are evil, a travesty, a horror against authors living or dead… …but you’ll notice a great many of Tolkien’s books have been bought since Jackson began his little dance. And, more importantly, those books are being READ. A couple years ago, after the first movie came out, you could have knocked me over with a feather when I saw this family of rednecks in Wal Mart picking up the books. “Y’wanna check aout this Laura Thurangs book?” I mean, these people looked like they just pulled up in the tractor, out on a jaunt into town, straight from the trailer park. They didn’t look like the sort of folks who’d read a newspaper, much less Tolkien. …but they bought the books. All three of 'em. Sure, I’m being elitist and probably pretty insensitive. For all I know, these folks were bigtime literati who just happened to look and sound like trailer-park denizens. …but if it fuels a phenomenon… and gets the books read… well, who’s to say this ain’t good? Now, if the Tolkien estate starts doing like V.C. Andrews’ family did… writing new books with Tolkien’s name on them… THAT is a crime against ghod and readers, and the publisher should be dragged from his office and soundly rogered by a dozen large perverts at high noon in the town square. There’s nothing wrong with doing what the Tolkien estate has done, either. “No, we have quite enough money, thank you, we’ll have no one else writing Middle Earth books, thank you.” Demonstrates class. This is fine. …but I’ll tell you: I have no great interest in buying or reading “DUNE: THE SECRET TOILET HABITS OF HOUSE HARKONNEN,” or seeing any movie based on it. And y’can’t make me. A Peter Jackson “Hobbit,” though… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/25 "2003-12-20T17:30:20Z")
I must agree with **Wumpus**. I too hold CJRT in high esteem for refusing to dilute the literary aspect of his dad’s creation by allowing others to (legally) muck with it. It’s JRRT’s lifework, it is currently standing to the test of time, and it is absolutely unique (yes, yes I know JRRT drew on many sources). Keep the literary aspect pure. Weiss and Hickman are _not_ in the same league, which they freely admit. (That’s not a slam. I’m a good physician, but I’m not in the same league as Osler, Halsted, or Koop. Or many others) I do wish CJRT was a bit more _relaxed_ about interpretations of JRRT’s work in other media, like screen and stage, though. Oh well. And **c\_carol** : I’ve forwarded your proposal to Mrs. Mercotan. She does most of the negotiating for me on these issues. She currently thinks I have enough wives (one), but admits she wouldn’t mind a little help around the farm. We’ll need a current pic. Have you read Bored of the Rings? 😃 QtM ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/26 "2003-12-20T18:22:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alzarian \* > **With the phenominal success of the Lord of the Rings series, I wonder if the movie studio will contemplate future adventures set in the world of Middle Earth.** You know, I liked that scene in _LotR IV: Payback Time_ where Aragorn leaps over a car while firing two 9-millimeter pistols at the orc drug dealers, but I thought the helicopter chase at the end was just too over-the-top. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/27 "2003-12-21T06:15:33Z")
Maybe they’ll film the Secret Diaries. Still the prettiest. ---
**Author:** ![Lithium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/71c47a/32.png) [@Lithium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lithium)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/28 "2003-12-21T07:24:13Z")
I would like to see a CGI battle of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad at Angband. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/29 "2003-12-21T12:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > **Weiss and Hickman are _not_ in the same league, which they freely admit. (That’s not a slam. I’m a good physician, but I’m not in the same league as Osler, Halsted, or Koop. Or many others)** I didn’t mean to imply that they were, sorry if you took it that way. If anything the Dragonlance world is less welled defined, and easier to muck up then Middle earth. My point was that It is possible for good stories to be written within a franchise and not have the dune travisty **Master Wang-Ka** spoke about. Richard A. Knaak, DOuglas Niles, and Mary Kirchoff are 3 of the best writers in Drangonlance I’ve read period. I think it comes from having a strong creative team (which I believe Niles and Knaak are apart of) and a head editor with a vison. IT can be done ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/30 "2003-12-21T15:22:04Z")
The film rights to _The Lord of the Rings_ and to _The Hobbit_ are owned by Tolkien Enterprises, Inc. (i.e., Saul Zaentz). They bought them long ago (1968, I think, although I’ve heard different years) and they solely control who makes any movies of them. They get most of the royalty rights from the movies, although Tolkien was paid a straight cash settlement when he sold the rights. I’ve heard amounts around $250,000 for what he was paid. It’s possible that the deal was also that Tolkien (or the Tolkien estate) also gets a certain percentage of the royalty rights, but I’m not sure of that. In any case, the estate has no control of who makes films of _The Lord of the Rings_ and of _The Hobbit_. The royalty rights for the movies include any of the spin-offs (reproduction rings, fast-food meals, etc.) from the movies, but not the reprinting of the books. The cinematic rights for all other of Tolkien’s works belong to the estate. All literary rights for all of Tolkien’s works belong to the estate. There’s no way that the Tolkien family is going to let anyone write a continuation of anything set in Middle Earth as long as they control the rights. There’s no way that they are going to let anyone do a movie using any of the other material beside _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord of the Rings_. Till such time as the copyright runs out on Tolkien’s works, the family controls those rights. And, incidentally, there’s no argument to be made in the Tolkien family that they desperately need money from selling additional rights. _The Lord of the Rings_ is the highest-selling piece of fiction of all time by a long shot. It’s sold more than 100,000,000 copies, and no more than 10% of that can be attributed to the Jackson films. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/31 "2003-12-21T20:50:14Z")
That ain’t what _ **I** _ heard. I heard that, although Saul Zaentz bought the rights to make “any number” of movies based on _Lord of the Rings_, he only bought the right to make **one** movie based on _The Hobbit_. (Said right having been used up when they made that crappy _The Hobbit_ cartoon in the late 1970s.) ---
**Author:** ![Rodrigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Rodrigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodrigo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/32 "2003-12-21T21:05:59Z")
“Aldarion and Erendis”, now that would be a good movie ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/33 "2003-12-24T23:42:52Z")
O.K., you may be right, tracer, but now we’re only disagreeing about a relatively small matter, which is whether Zaentz can make more than one version of _The Hobbit_. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701/34 "2003-12-25T00:17:15Z")
I think the story of the Fall of Numenor would make an awesome movie… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-iv-and-other-possible-adventures-in-middle-earth/219701.md?page=1)