# LOTR: meter scansion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604 "2002-12-30T03:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/1 "2002-12-30T03:51:18Z")
I’m probably missing something incredibly obvious, but I can’t seem to get this to scan properly in my head: Three Rings for Elven-Kings under the sky Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone Nine for the Mortal Men doomed to die One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie The rest of it, I am able to scan pretty easily, as a sort of modified iambic: **One Ring** to **rule** them all. **One Ring** to **find** them. **One Ring** to **bring** them **all** and **in** the **dark** ness **bind** them. **In** the **Land** of **Mor** dor **where** the **Sha** ows **lie.** The rest of it? It feels like there are accents or complete metric feet missing. e.g. the first line feels like it ought to be: **Three Rings** for **Elv** en- **Kings** [pause] **un** der **neath** the **sky.** Which is obviously not right, since there’s no “-neath.” The other lines just end up in a similar non-metric mess. Lines 1 and 3 seem too short to fit the meter. 2 and 4 don’t seem to have a clear metric pattern at all. How is this actually supposed to go? Beh. :o ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/2 "2002-12-30T04:25:40Z")
Considering that Tolkien was considered one of the world’s leading experts on four-stress non-footed medieval poetry and that this sounds very much like examples of that I’ve read, I’d suspect that there was no intent to do it in metre at all. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/3 "2002-12-30T04:25:40Z")
Considering that Tolkien was considered one of the world’s leading experts on four-stress non-footed medieval poetry and that this sounds very much like examples of that I’ve read, I’d suspect that there was no intent to do it in metre at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/4 "2002-12-30T04:35:32Z")
In that case, where are the four stresses? How does one scan non-footed poetry? ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/5 "2002-12-30T04:53:30Z")
This is how I’ve always stressed it; I’ve no clue is this is ‘iambic’ or whatnot. I write prose, not poetry, so my knowledge there is rather flat. Forgive the lack of capitalization, I was too lazy to use the little brackets to make it bold (and I don’t think many of us here will feel that I was disrespectful to Sauron…) THREE rings for ELVen-kings UNder the SKY SEVen for the DWARF-lords in their HALLS of STONE NINE for the MORtal men DOOMED to DIE ONE for the DARK lord on his DARK THRONE IN the land of MORdor where the SHADows LIE ONE ring to RULE them all. ONE ring to FIND them. ONE ring to BRING them all and IN the darkness BIND them. IN the land of MORdor where the SHADows LIE I doubt this helped, but that is my perspective. ~Ferry ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/6 "2002-12-30T04:54:50Z")
I see I can’t edit…I just want to point out that I have four stresses on each line…could this be what **Polycarp** was referring to? ~Ferry, again ---
**Author:** ![Epigramcracker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Epigramcracker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epigramcracker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/7 "2002-12-30T05:18:40Z")
It seems the stresses fall where you’d naturally want to put them–that it’s not really molded into a certain poetic form. I read once that Tolkien really disliked Shakespeare and that his most _modern_ taste in English literature/poetry was Chaucer! So that might rule out any regular adherance to iambig/trochaic/etc. verse, since all those forms became so prevalent a little later in British history than Tolkien dealt with. …what did i say? -epi ---
**Author:** ![Epigramcracker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Epigramcracker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epigramcracker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/8 "2002-12-30T05:19:50Z")
make that **iambic** \* in my last post. because i am dum. dumb. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/9 "2002-12-30T06:02:49Z")
Shoot…lost my last answer. Anyhow, it’s not in accentual-syllabic meter, that’s what may be screwing you up. **Polycarp** is correct, but slightly contradicts himself at the end. This poem is in accentual meter, four accents to a line, aka tetrameter. My only quibble with Polycarp’s post is that he says Tolkien had no metrical intentions. Sure he did, tetrameter. Other examples of syllabic meter outside of medieval poetry (which tended to be alliterative tetrameter - rhyme was not yet a main component of Anglo-Saxon poetry) are nursery rhymes. HICKory DICKory DOCK the MOUSE ran UP the CLOCK Analyze that in an accentual-syllabic context? Dactyl, dactyl, lone unstressed foot followed by a steady line of iambs in trimeter. Doesn’t make much sense to analyze it this way, does it?It’s simply trimeter. Or strong-stress trimeter, you can also call it. And **Buckleberry’s** got pretty much the same scansion I got for it. Maybe I’d shift a stress here and there, but there’s room for interpretation. At any rate, it’s four main stresses to a line. ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/10 "2002-12-30T06:40:55Z")
Here’s a link to [salon.com](http://salon.com)’s audio library, where Tolkien himself reads the verse of the ring. [http://archive.salon.com/audio/fiction/2001/12/19/tolkien\_fellowship/](http://archive.salon.com/audio/fiction/2001/12/19/tolkien_fellowship/) I’ve long forgotten whatever I was taught about meter, but I thought this might be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/11 "2002-12-30T15:20:45Z")
**buckgully** , THANK YOU! I just played Sam’s rhyme of the trolls…::massive giggling:: That’s so precious. _ahem_ there’s a topic around here somewhere, I’m sure. ::peers around:: Ah, yes. I checked out Tolkien’s pronunciation, and, well, frankly, the man wrote it, so I’m not about to argue with him. I’m just surprised at his timing…he seems to rush into a lot of lines. ::shrug:: Who am I to say? ~Ferry ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/12 "2002-12-30T15:23:01Z")
:: shame:: I can’t EDIT! that little smiley is supposed to be :: peers around…I’m sorry… ~Ferry, waiting that interminable time limit to repost ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/13 "2002-12-30T18:40:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buckgully \* > \*\*Here’s a link to [salon.com](http://salon.com)’s audio library, where Tolkien himself reads the verse of the ring. \*\* Thank you. Rock on. I don’t have speakers here at work but will definitely make a point of checking it out at home. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/14 "2003-01-01T03:07:32Z")
Both **Kaio** and **BuckleberryFerry** , you have inserted one extra syllable into the 3rd line. (It should be: “_Nine for mortal men…_”; there’s no “the” in this line.) That alone is enough to throw off the rhythm of the whole thing and give you a vague sense that something isn’t quite right. Try reading it again the way JRRT wrote it. And yes, **BuckleberryFerry** , I agree with you 100% in your placement of the stresses. The “Ring Verse” is an odd kind of hybrid: rhymed like post-Chaucerian verse, but with a stress pattern taken from old Anglo-Saxon poetry. I have always thought that Matthew Arnold got his inspiration for “sprung verse” from the old Anglo-Saxon stress-timed meters. In doing so he was recovering a quintessentially English sound. Tolkien did write authentic-sounding alliterative verse the Anglo-Saxon way, but in _LotR_ that was exclusively reserved for Rohan poetry, to great effect. Another modern English poet who has returned to the Anglo-Saxon alliterative style is the English Sufi scholar Martin Lings, in his collection of poems titled _The Elements_ (reprinted in his _Collected Poems_ [London: Perennial Books, 1987]). And don’t forget the folk singers that have always done this kind of extrametrical syllabification unselfconsciously… _The tune don’t have to be clever, And it don’t matter if you put a couple extra syllables into a line. It sounds more ethnic if it ain’t good English And it don’t even gotta rhyme… (excuse me: rhyne!)_ —Tom Lehrer, “The Folk Song Army” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/15 "2003-01-01T05:46:51Z")
Hey **Jomo** - Just a correction, and if I’m wrong, please tell me so, but I’ve always been taught that Gerard Manley Hopkins was pretty much THE poet credited with sprung verse. I don’t remember Matthew Arnold being an adherent of this form. At any rate, Hopkins was the pioneer AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/16 "2003-01-01T07:20:10Z")
Also, remember that the verse wasn’t written in English - it’s a translation into the common tongue from the language of Mordor. I expect it scans fine in whatever language that is (High Elven? Sindarin? Something else entirely?). ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/17 "2003-01-01T07:29:12Z")
But, just to address the OP directly, here’s how it scans (naturally) for my wife and me: **Three** Rings for the **Elven** -Kings **un** der the **sky** **Sev** en for the **Dwarf** -lords in their **halls** of **stone** **Nine** for **Mor** tal Men **doomed** to **die** **One** for the **Dark** **Lord** on his **dark** **throne** In the **Land** of **Mor** dor where the **Sha** dows **lie** **One** Ring to **rule** them all. **One** Ring to **find** them. **One** Ring to **bring** them all and in the **dark** ness **bind** them. In the **Land** of **Mor** dor where the **Sha** dows **lie**. ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/18 "2003-01-01T08:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kaio \* > **One Ring** to **rule** them all. **One Ring** to **find** them. > **One Ring** to **bring** them **all** and **in** the **dark** ness **bind** them. …and a neat thing I noticed, re-reading _Fellowship_ just last week, is that the Ring’s inscription in the Black Speech has almost exactly the same rhythm: **ash nazg** dur **bat** ul **uk** , **ash nazg** **gim** ba **tul** , **ash nazg** thra **ka** tul **uk** agh **bur** zum- **i** shi **krim** pa **tul**. …Brr. So perfectly ominous-sounding; in a weird way it’s almost as much a work of art as Quenya… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/19 "2003-01-01T16:47:28Z")
Sorry, of course I meant Gerard Manley Hopkins. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-meter-scansion/145604/20 "2003-01-01T16:53:09Z")
**Jomo Mojo** , I would just like to point out that I cut/pasted from the OP…::shame:: Not to embarrass anyone or anything… ~Ferry