# LOTR Mythology Tutorial **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418 "2003-05-01T16:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/21 "2003-05-02T01:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\*[hijack]Atalante is another name for Numenor? That’s so cool![/hijack] \*\* In the Quenya, Lantë = downfall. Atan = Men of the West, or of the three houses of the Edain, who made up the population of Numenor. Hence **Atalantë** , downfall of the men of the west, aka the fall of Numenor. Similar is the **Noldolantë** , downfall of the Noldor, by Maglor. And **emarkp** , you must have missed **peg** ’s post listing the Encyclopedia of Arda. And _you_, **Fenris** , better smile when you say that, pardner! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/22 "2003-05-02T01:20:28Z")
another note on **Atalantë**. Some writings by JRRT define it as meaning _The Downfallen_ in and of itself, without reference to the _Atani_, the second-born of Iluvatar. I"m not sure which is true. I’m more of a parrot than a linguist. A norwegian blue, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Delly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Delly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/23 "2003-05-02T02:15:44Z")
theres a series of books out called The Histories of Middle Earth, theyre are 12 parts, and youll probably find the answers to most your questions in there, About Sil… anyone who has read it congrats, if I’v started it once ive started it 50 times :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/24 "2003-05-02T02:39:19Z")
I’ve read **HOMES** (History of Middle Earth Series), **Delly**. Twice. It’s very informative, and fascinating to us true students of JRRT, but it can be tough going. If one gets bogged down in The Silmarillion, one shouldn’t pick up HOMES. I’ve said it in other threads and I’ll say it again: IMHO for the best experience with The Silmarillion, pick up Karen Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle Earth, and keep it on hand as you read The Silmarillion. Either that or get the CD (all 12 volumes) of Sil and just listen. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/25 "2003-05-02T04:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Delly \* > \*\*theres a series of books out called The Histories of Middle Earth, theyre are 12 parts, and youll probably find the answers to most your questions in there, About Sil… anyone who has read it congrats, if I’v started it once ive started it 50 times :rolleyes: \*\* You can send your copy to me, if you want. I bought it for my younger brother for Christmas the year it was first published. I got to read it one time, then the little bastard went and joined the Army and took it with him. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/26 "2003-05-02T06:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > **I’m more of a parrot than a linguist.** Remarkable bird, the **Qadgop the Mercotan** , idn’t it? Beautiful plumage. ---
**Author:** ![Cougarfang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c67d28/32.png) [@Cougarfang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cougarfang)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/27 "2003-05-02T11:03:01Z")
Anything for another plug for the CoE… [The Modern Silmarillion](http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3560), AKA “The Sil for Dummies”. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/28 "2003-05-02T14:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*In the Quenya, Lantë = downfall. Atan = Men of the West, or of the three houses of the Edain, who made up the population of Numenor. Hence **Atalantë** , downfall of the men of the west, aka the fall of Numenor. Similar is the **Noldolantë** , downfall of the Noldor, by Maglor. > > \*\* And any similarity of Atalante to Atlantis is pure coincidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/29 "2003-05-02T19:00:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Remarkable bird, the **Qadgop the Mercotan** , idn’t it? Beautiful plumage. \*\* But now I’m tired and shagged out after a long squawk. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/30 "2003-05-02T19:08:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > \*\*And any similarity of Atalante to Atlantis is pure coincidence. 😉 \*\* Atlantis? Do you mean Atlanta? I am not familiar with “Atlantis”. I know there is a Lantus insulin brand. I had an aunt lana once. Norman, co-ordinate. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/31 "2003-05-02T19:48:59Z")
Of course. It’s well-known that Tolkien drew parallels between his mythos and that of Margaret Mitchell. I believe they had a long and fruitful correspondence in the 30’s. (we need a tongue in cheek smiley) Reminds me of a Futurama episode, where the citizens of the drowned city of Atlanta sing the Donovan song of the same name. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/32 "2003-05-02T20:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > \*\* Reminds me of a Futurama episode, where the citizens of the drowned city of Atlanta sing the Donovan song of the same name. \*\* Oh Lord, I must see that one! ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/33 "2003-05-02T21:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peg \* > \*\*As many have mentioned, _The Silmarillion_ is your key to Middle-earth history. People complain about how it’s dry and hard to get through, but I found it really fascinating. Treat it as though you as reading a history text and you’ll be fine. > \*\* which reminds me of my favorite review of a Tolkien book: “like the phone book in Elvish.” 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418/34 "2003-05-03T02:13:17Z")
> [@](#): > > [hijack]Atalante is another name for Numenor? That’s so cool![/hijack] Which also means that Aragorn and Conan are of the same lineage. Which is also cool. And **Dex** , it’s true that anything written by humans about a time that far in the past would be mythology rather than history. But this is elves we’re talking about here. Heck, they were _there_. For comparison: When my mom tells me about the Kennedy assassination, is she telling me mythology, or history? Because that’s about the equivalent of Galadriel, say, or Cirdan telling of the War of Wrath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-mythology-tutorial/172418.md?page=1)