# LOTR Pronunciations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299 "2003-12-01T17:41:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/1 "2003-12-01T17:41:30Z")
I have been a fan of the Lord of the Rings since I was a kid and I am quite pleased with Peter Jackson’s adaptation for the purposes of the movies. I don’t have big problems with the changes Jackson thought were appropriate for the cinema. However, there are a few pronunciations in the movies that I find a bit grating to my ears and I wanted to run them by some others. The pronunciations I have used are based on my reading of Appendix E to the series. Perhaps I have misunderstood them all these years. Anyway, I’m interested to read your thoughts on these – **Gandalf** — In the movie it’s pronounced like it might be if it were a modern American English word, ['g&nd&lf], with the vowels similar to the “a” in “cat” or “pan” or as ['g&ndAlf], with the second vowel as in “all.” My understanding from the books is that it should be pronounced ['gandalv], with the final “f” pronounced like a “v” and the vowels similar to the “a” in “father.” **Isengard** — In the movie it’s pronounced ['aIzEngard] or “EYE-zen-guard.” My understanding was that it should be ['isEngard] or “EE-sen-guard.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/2 "2003-12-01T17:48:55Z")
One more — **Sméagol** — In the movie, it’s pronounced like ['smig@l] or “SMEE-gull.” My understanding was that it should be three syllables, ['sme@gAl] or “SMAY-uh-gaul.” ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/3 "2003-12-01T18:09:35Z")
It’s nitpicking, I know, but I have to agree with you… I found the pronounciation of Sméagol particularly grating. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/4 "2003-12-01T18:11:17Z")
Hm. And here I thought you meant “how do you pronounce LOTR?” I was all ready to say “Low-ter.” Just too used to seeing all the “Low-ter” threads here, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/5 "2003-12-02T16:13:20Z")
Well, **UD** , at least you agree with me. No one else seems to have noticed, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/6 "2003-12-02T16:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Uvula Donor \* > \*\*It’s nitpicking, I know, but I have to agree with you… I found the pronounciation of Sméagol particularly grating. \*\* Agreed. I’ve always thought it was pronounced “throat-warbler mangrove.” ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/7 "2003-12-02T16:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > \*\*One more — > > **Sméagol** — In the movie, it’s pronounced like ['smig@l] or “SMEE-gull.” > > My understanding was that it should be three syllables, ['sme@gAl] or “SMAY-uh-gaul.” \*\* I believe it’s “smair-gol”. See the final paragraph of App. E-I. The pronunciations don’t at all interfere with my enjoyment of the films, although I’m sure they would have irritated the professor to no end. It does lend some unintentional comedy to the DVD commentaries, however, when the filmmakers drone on about how careful they’ve been in recreating all aspects of Tolkien’s creation, including the languages. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/8 "2003-12-02T17:18:40Z")
And Mordor has rolled Rs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/9 "2003-12-02T17:24:41Z")
I knew smeagol was three sylables, but always pronounced it as two anyway, so that was fine. the only one that threw me was SOW-ron, which I always thought of as SORE-on. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/10 "2003-12-02T17:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe it’s “smair-gol”. See the final paragraph of App. E-I. I don’t get that at all. Where does an “R” come into it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/11 "2003-12-02T17:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > the only one that threw me was SOW-ron, which I always thought of as SORE-on. Actually, I think they got that one right. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/12 "2003-12-02T18:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > \*\*I don’t get that at all. Where does an “R” come into it? \*\* From my misreading of the text. From the end of Appendix E, section I: “In the case of the personal and place-names of Rohan (where they have not been modernized)… _éa_ and _éo_ are diphthongs, which may be represented by the _ea_ of English _bear_, and the _eo_ of _Theobald_…” Since _Sméagol_ is based on an old English word, same as the names of the people of Rohan, it would seem logical to apply the same rules of pronunciation. _Sm_(_ea_ as in _bear_)_gol_. I took the final _r_ in _bear_ as part of the vowel sound. _Smehgol_ might be a better representation. But it’s still **two syllables** , not three, as are _Éowyn, Éomer_ and _Théoden_. Oh, what a tangled nit we pick… Of course, we could dismiss all such quibbles by saying that it’s not his “real” name anyway, but merely the way Tolkien represented it in writing. His “true” name is _Trahald_, so that’s how it should be spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/13 "2003-12-02T19:08:03Z")
Actually, **TWDuke** , I come to the opposite conclusion when looking at that bit from the appendix. It occurs to me that our problem here might be a rhotic/nonrhotic one. What is your accent? I’m rhotic, and I’m pretty sure that Old English was rhotic as well. Therefore, to me, the “ea” in “bear” is a diphthong, e-a. And then the “r” adds its own “r” sound. If you lop off the “r,” you still get two syllables (which, if you’re nonrhotic, would be the way you pronounce it anyway). Tolkein says its a “diphthong.” If you pronounce it like “Smehgol,” then there’s no diphthong there. So the “ea” must represent a glide between two vowel sounds, “Sme-a-gol.” And if you’re applying the same rules to “Smeagol” as you are to “Eomer,” then how do you come up with different conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/14 "2003-12-02T19:38:21Z")
The _eo_ in Theobald is a dipthong? 😕 I thought it was pronounced THEE-oh. And on the subject of me being moron, until about two minutes ago, I thought it was dipthong, not dip **h** thong, so I have been spelling and _pronouncing_ it wrong for years. :embarassed: To round out the smilie trilogy, I was very pleased when Legolas was prounounced LEG-o-las in the movie, not le-GO-lus, as my illiterate friends always pronounced it, and I note now that their pronunciation has sifted to the proper way. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/15 "2003-12-02T19:41:03Z")
I also note that embarrassed has two r’s, and the embarrassed smilie is spelled colon-o. :o ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/16 "2003-12-02T20:02:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > … **It occurs to me that our problem here might be a rhotic/nonrhotic one. What is your accent?** Why, I don’t have an accent. I’m an American. (Kidding! Sort of.) Born and raised in Southern California, although I don’t speak Urban, Valley or Surfer. > [@](#): > > \*\*Therefore, to me, the “ea” in “bear” is a diphthong, e-a. And then the “r” adds its own “r” sound. If you lop off the “r,” you still get two syllables (which, if you’re nonrhotic, would be the way you pronounce it anyway). > > Tolkein says its a “diphthong.” If you pronounce it like “Smehgol,” then there’s no diphthong there. So the “ea” must represent a glide between two vowel sounds, “Sme-a-gol.”\*\* To me a diphthong is one syllable, and dictionaries seem to agree. Perhaps there’s a specialized linguistic definition I’m not aware of? > **[Definition of diphthong | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/diphthong)** > > Definition of diphthong from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. I meant “eh” as an approximation. Perhaps it’s a poor one, but to my mind and ears it seems better than breaking the sound into syllables. > [@](#): > > \*\*And if you’re applying the same rules to “Smeagol” as you are to “Eomer,” then how do you come up with different conclusions? \*\* It was the same conclusion, just poorly worded. Let me try again: But it’s still two syllables (as are Éowyn, Éomer and Théoden), not three. Now, as for the correct pronunciation of those last three names, _Theobald_ is useless to me as a guide, as I don’t think I’ve ever heard that name. I’ve read elsewhere that Éowyn should be spoken as _Erwin_, which hardly does Miranda Otto justice. Anyway, I think there’s room for varying pronunciations, and these are not the characters “real” names, even within the context of the story. However, words in names in Elvish and Black Speech are meant to be transliterations, not mere translations, and we have very precise guides to the proper sounds. Ee-sen-gard aside, I think the filmmakers did a good job with these overall. Gandalf certainly rolls the _r_s in Mordor, even if Sam does not. **Podkayne** : Don’t feel like a moron. My dictionary lists “dip-thong” as a variant pronunciation, and how often does the name “Theobald” come up in conversation? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/17 "2003-12-02T20:43:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > \*\*Actually, I think they got that one right. \*\* Right or not, it threw me. 🙂 It’s not fair to put the pronunciations in the Appendix. You read the whole book with one sound in your head, then get to the end and find out you were wrong the whole time. But the old way still sticks. (Don’t get me started on Wheel of Time pronunciations.) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/18 "2003-12-02T21:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gonzoron \* > \*\*the only one that threw me was SOW-ron, which I always thought of as SORE-on. \*\* Not to be confused with “Soaron” from _Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future_. (“SOW-ron” makes more sense to me, though. Think “saurian”.) ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/19 "2003-12-02T21:59:26Z")
I always thought Smeagol was pronounced Smee-eh-gol. The e and the a are two seperate sounds with two seperate syllables, not blended together into Smee-gol like English. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/20 "2003-12-02T22:44:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*(“SOW-ron” makes more sense to me, though. Think “saurian”.) \*\* Um… you mean saurian’s not SORE-ee-uhn? uh oh… But… but… what about dinosaur? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299.md?page=2)