# LOTR Pronunciations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299 "2003-12-01T17:41:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/21 "2003-12-02T23:10:53Z")
re: Gandalf and Isengard: Actually, PJ is right on this one. You’re trying to pronounce them as if they were Elvish, but they’re not. The name Gandalf is Westron and Isengard is, IIRC, Rohirric, so they _should_ be pronounced as if they were English words. Would it be horribly geeky of me to say that the linguistics appendix is one of my favorite parts of LoTR? I love the Sindarin language. (Love the way Gandalf rolls his R’s in the movie, too.) But I have trouble figuring out where the stress falls in certain words. Maybe someone can help me out with these: –Imladris –Glorfindel –Earendil –Fingolfin ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/22 "2003-12-02T23:24:04Z")
You’re right, and I’m glad. Ee-sen-gard sounds so wrong. Appendix E says Eldarin languages stress “the last syllable but one” when it contains a vowel followed by two consonants, which would include all the names you asked about – wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/23 "2003-12-03T00:11:21Z")
Just so we understand each other, in my attempts, the ampersand (&) is pronounced as though it were a schwa, that little upside-down lower case e I encountered in my spelling books and dictionaries in grade school. **Im** - l& - dris Glor - **fin** - d&l Eh - **ar** - &n - dill Fin - **gohl** - fin Just MHO. Also, **Iss** - &n - gard **Gahn** - dalv **Gohn** - dor ---
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/24 "2003-12-03T03:12:18Z")
TWDuke, right, but the question is which syllable the consonants belong to. Glor-fin-del or Glor-find-el? kaylasdad, why “Gahn-dalv”? Because of the thing in the appendix about final “f” pronounced as “v”? That’s only for Sindarin, it doesn’t apply here. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/25 "2003-12-03T04:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by c\_carol \* > **TWDuke, right, but the question is which syllable the consonants belong to. Glor-fin-del or Glor-find-el?** Not an issue, going by Tolkien’s examples: “_is **I** ldur… sil **I** vren._.” If two consonants follow the vowel in the penultimate syllable, it gets the stress, with exceptions for _dh, th_ and _ch_, which represent single consonants in the “orginal” script. Ergo, Im - LA - dris Glor - FIN - del E - ar - EN - dil Fin - GOL - fin Gahn - dalv Gohn - dor > [@](#): > > \*\* > kaylasdad, why “Gahn-dalv”? Because of the thing in the appendix about final “f” pronounced as “v”? That’s only for Sindarin, it doesn’t apply here. \*\* I’d like to switch sides on that issue again, if I may, and say that Gandalf **is** supposed to be pronounced this way. Following his explanation of Elvish pronunciation Tolkien writes, “In names drawn from other languages than Eldarin the same values are intended.” He then lists several exceptions, none of which would seem to apply to Gandalf, so for the moment I’d say pronounce the _f_ like a _v_. This would be closer to the original Icelandic, anyway. And, as much as it pains me, I now have to support EE-sen-gard, since _i_ has the _ee_ sound in Elvish AND Old English, from which the word _isen_ (iron) derives. Tolkien’s introduction to the section on pronunciation takes on an ironic tone in light of the amount of discussion and controversy surrounding the subject: “The following points may be observed by those who are interested in such details.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/26 "2003-12-03T08:03:28Z")
**TWDuke** , thanks for catching my back on the Gahn - dalv reasoning. I will gladly accept correction and instruction on Eh - ar - EN - dil, and even on Im - LA - dris, if necessary, although, to my ear, it screws up the scansion in the staves of Faramir’s (and Boromir’s) dream (Seek for the sword that was broken. . . ). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/27 "2003-12-03T12:27:32Z")
Here’s an Elvish pronunciation guide: [http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/pronguide.html](http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/pronguide.html) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/28 "2003-12-03T14:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s only for Sindarin, it doesn’t apply here But an explicit example of final “F” as [v] is “Nindalf.” That’s damn close to “Gandalf.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/29 "2003-12-03T14:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > The name Gandalf is Westron and Isengard is, IIRC, Rohirric, so they _should_ be pronounced as if they were English words. But, as **TWDuke** points out, though, not as modern American or British English words. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/30 "2003-12-03T18:47:09Z")
IMHO, the pronunciations used in the movies are pretty much a match to those used in the Audio book versions produced by Recorded Books and narrated by Rob Inglis. A great listen, by the way. But don’t take my word for it. I must admit that I find it grating as I grow up to find out how many words I mispronounced. For example, I loved playing Kid EYE-CAR-US on my Nintendo. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/31 "2003-12-03T20:18:10Z")
In case anyone is wondering … It’s actually pronounced “SAH-ron.” I’m also not as tall as Tolkien thought I was, but I’m much more attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Lithium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/71c47a/32.png) [@Lithium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lithium)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/32 "2003-12-03T20:48:58Z")
Listen to the pronounciations in the BBC audio version. They sound much better. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/33 "2003-12-04T07:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TWDuke \* > \*\*The pronunciations don’t at all interfere with my enjoyment of the films, although I’m sure they would have irritated the professor to no end. It does lend some unintentional comedy to the DVD commentaries, however, when the filmmakers drone on about how careful they’ve been in recreating all aspects of Tolkien’s creation, including the languages. \*\* Hmm. That brings up another question. How do you pronounce this: :rolleyes: ? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/34 "2003-12-04T08:06:14Z")
Well it should all be pronounced in a Kiwi accent of course. Middle Earth is here after all…ok yes, I’m leaving now. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/35 "2003-12-04T08:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*Well it should all be pronounced in a Kiwi accent of course. Middle Earth is here after all…ok yes, I’m leaving now. \*\* I think that’s the main reason I’ve been listening to the DVD commentaries; the New Zealand accent has always been a weird turn-on for me. Whenever they go on about how such and such a scene is just a “slight depatcha” from the original, it gives me the chills. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/36 "2003-12-04T08:48:50Z")
We are good at giving people the chills…we squiff aussies often 😃 In better news Orlando Bloom lurves us and Gandalf rates our blokes evidently. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/37 "2003-12-04T15:35:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SolGrundy \* > \*\*Hmm. That brings up another question. How do you pronounce this: :rolleyes: ? \*\* ī’-rōl-iŋ smī’-lē, obviously, but I don’t recall any appearing in LOTR. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/38 "2003-12-04T17:38:09Z")
Aren’t there recordings of Tolkein reading from LOTR? I wonder if evidence of pronunciation is available there. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/39 "2003-12-05T00:09:00Z")
[Recordings of Tolkien.](http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0898452236-0) All I ask in return for this valuable information is that you buy the tape, listen very carefully to it and get back to us. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299/40 "2003-12-05T14:54:10Z")
Thanks. I’ve ordered cassettes from Amazon. I’ll update when I’ve listened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-pronunciations/216299.md?page=3)