# LOTR question(s) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [October 28, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287 "2007-10-28T01:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/201 "2007-10-30T19:36:45Z")
I like Boromir’s last words to Aragorn, but his whole dying routine goes on waaaay too long, considering that he’s been turned into a Gondorian pincushion. It’s almost parodic by the end. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/202 "2007-10-30T19:38:10Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Ok, so on now to TT. But one more question re FOTR. Why does Aragorn reprmand Frodo re his mentioning of Gandalf wearing the elven ring? Aragorn says that such should not be said, not even to him outside of Lo`rien. [/QUOTE] I’m guessing because most everyone would like to get their hands on those, not least of which is Sauron (IIRC Sauron was recollecting the rings…he got the Nine back from the Ringwraiths and some of the Seven). If Sauron knew Gandalf had one Sauron might well focus more attention on him to get the ring. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/203 "2007-10-30T19:56:22Z")
Oh, the whole “my spies are everywhere!” stuff. Off to read for a bit, then I make dinner (early because I have class). If class is boring, I’ll read in class (it’s online so the prof doesn’t see me doing it). Work tomorrow and Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/204 "2007-10-30T19:56:30Z")
I vote with E.rigby on Boromir’s death scene. LOVED it in the movie. one of those few places Jackson actually improved on the book, in my lowly opinion ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/205 "2007-10-30T20:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] I’m guessing because most everyone would like to get their hands on those, not least of which is Sauron (IIRC Sauron was recollecting the rings…he got the Nine back from the Ringwraiths and some of the Seven). If Sauron knew Gandalf had one Sauron might well focus more attention on him to get the ring. [/QUOTE] You know, that’s always been one of the things that I wish Tolkien had addressed. It had been mentioned that Sauron had managed to recover some of the Seven… but what was he _doing_ with the things? They didn’t do much with Dwarves, but presumably Men would have been just as susceptible to the effects of the Seven. So, what, was Sauron just holding on to them? Using them to build his _own_ treasure hoard (had to finance his armies somehow)? Wearing them as extra bling to get his career as a rapper kick-started?? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/206 "2007-10-30T20:19:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] You know, that’s always been one of the things that I wish Tolkien had addressed. It had been mentioned that Sauron had managed to recover some of the Seven… but what was he _doing_ with the things? They didn’t do much with Dwarves, but presumably Men would have been just as susceptible to the effects of the Seven. So, what, was Sauron just holding on to them? Using them to build his _own_ treasure hoard (had to finance his armies somehow)? Wearing them as extra bling to get his career as a rapper kick-started?? [/QUOTE] Without the One Ring, redistributing the 7 would not have been as useful to Sauron. It does seem like they would have caused mischief favorable to Sauron if he them out in the world among men however. He just would not have had control over the mischief. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/207 "2007-10-30T20:43:48Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Quartz, I defer to your finding one sentence in the Silmarillion that identifies those alive at the time who are entitled, and quoting it as definitive proof of the accuracy of your POV. [/quote] It’s not just one sentence - that’s an exerpt from a whole passage. > [@](#): > > I just wish you’d been around to clarify matters for JRRT – he wrote a very poignant appendix to LOTR that revolves on Arwen’s need to make the choice: Eldar with her beloved father, or Edain with the love of her life. Yes, it is poignant, and I have read it. But I rather read it as that both Arwen and Elrond have foreseen that she will be able to choose, rather than actually having the power of choice then and there. And it makes no reference to her brothers being able to choose. But I’m no Tolkein scholar; I just happen to have The Lord of The Rings and The Silmarillion to hand. Again, I will note that in the book in the chapter Many Partings she says she makes the choice of Luthien, not that of Elwing (or Earendil, Elros, and Elrond). It seems to me that her reference to Luthien rather than Elwing is particular: Elwing had a free choice, and Earendil chose to be of Elvenkind for her sake; Luthien chose mortality for the love of Beren. In the film, this is echoed by the dream / drowning sequence in the middle of The Two Towers where she appears in his dream and gives him the will to live. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/208 "2007-10-30T20:58:40Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Well, that was my many-greats-grandfather Eldarion, of course. But yes, I have a few tales from over the years. [/QUOTE] If you at all resemble your many-greats-grandfather Elessar, I’d listen to you spin a tale or two. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/209 "2007-10-30T21:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] So, what, was Sauron just holding on to them? Using them to build his _own_ treasure hoard (had to finance his armies somehow)? Wearing them as extra bling to get his career as a rapper kick-started?? [/QUOTE] Now, there’s a good point. And what was to stop him from just forging another Ring of Power, anyway? He lacked the strength? He had the knowledge. and just what do Galadriel, Gandalf and the other one (Elrond?) DO with their rings? Shine the refracted light into someone’s eyes? Right now they are running as if the whips of their very masters are behind them. Or they have to catch the bus. Or something.\* \*can’t be all reverant and serious about this–it’s a whopping good tale, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/210 "2007-10-30T21:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Now, there’s a good point. And what was to stop him from just forging another Ring of Power, anyway? He lacked the strength? He had the knowledge. and just what do Galadriel, Gandalf and the other one (Elrond?) DO with their rings? Shine the refracted light into someone’s eyes? [/QUOTE] Sauron had imbued to much of his own power into the Ring. He had no hopes of making another. So, yes, lack of strength. Galadriel and Elrond primarily use the power of their rings to protect their homes in subtle ways. We can speculate about much more. I think Galadriel used the her ring to break Sauron’s darkness. Many think that Elrond used his to control the flood that wiped out the Black Riders. Galadriel apparently was able to play games with the apparent flow of time in Lothlorien. This was surely due to her Ring. Gandalf used the power of the Narya to aid his own powers. It was probably a great help in rekindling Theoden’s heart. Jim ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/211 "2007-10-30T21:23:12Z")
yes it is a rousing good tale, and we all do take it too seriously at times. But I think the question about Galadriel & Elrond & Gandalf - What do they do with their rings - That was answered upthread aways. Galadriel used power from hers to protect Lorien, & give it that timeless quality. Elrond used his to protect the major hideout of Rivendell, and create floods as necessary. Gandalf used his sparingly, as befit his position as advisor and cheerleader. But it did help him with fireworks, with warding off wolves/wargs, helped in fighting Balrog, helped in fighting Nazgul, etc. Edit - As usual, someone more literate answered question before me. Feel free to ignore my posts. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/212 "2007-10-30T21:32:18Z")
[QUOTE=well he’s back] Edit - As usual, someone more literate answered question before me. Feel free to ignore my posts. [/QUOTE] This is surely the only subject were I have ever been called more literate. Thank you. 😉 I enjoy your posts and that your user name appears to be a tribute to Sam. Please keep posting. We all enjoy the exchanges of knowledge and opinion on this subject. Jim ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/213 "2007-10-30T21:33:08Z")
Did somebody say something? Just kidding, **well he’s back** –I’m not ignoring you! I love that I’m getting replies and that experts are being patient with what must be very stupid questions. This is the way to really read the books. (dreading the bits about Sam and Frodo–that part just doesn’t involve me, emotionally. Sam gets on my nerves and Gollum just creeps me out-although I pity him, too. And Frodo just gets wearier–frankly, I think he wears out long before journey’s end…) Off to class. Hope it’s boring, so I can read and post here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/214 "2007-10-31T01:08:07Z")
Dwimmer-crafty?\* Dwimmer\*-crafty? Oddly, I can get the meaning, but what kind of word is that? (anyone who comes back with Rohirrin gets slapped with a wet trout). Class is mind numbingly boring tonight. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/215 "2007-10-31T01:19:28Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Dwimmer-crafty?\* Dwimmer\*-crafty? Oddly, I can get the meaning, but what kind of word is that? [/QUOTE] Actually it is based on Old English word ġedwimor It means what you think: Magic or sorcery. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/216 "2007-10-31T01:19:55Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Dwimmer-crafty?\* Dwimmer\*-crafty? Oddly, I can get the meaning, but what kind of word is that? (anyone who comes back with Rohirrin gets slapped with a wet trout). Class is mind numbingly boring tonight. [/QUOTE] Tolkein wiktionary it seems 🙂 > [@](#): > > Alternative spellings > > dwoemer > > [edit] Etymology > > Old English ġedwimor. > > [edit] Pronunciation > > IPA: /'dwɪmə/ > > [edit] Noun > > Singular > dwimmer > > Plural > dwimmers > > dwimmer (plural dwimmers) > > 1. Magic, sorcery, spell, occult art. > > SOURCE: [dwimmer - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dwimmer) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/217 "2007-10-31T02:00:51Z")
User name! Dwimmer–I love it! Off to bed. I have to BE at work at 0530. So, I won’t be posting in the am. I’ll try to post while waiting for the trick or treaters. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/218 "2007-10-31T05:20:07Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Dwimmer-crafty?\* Dwimmer\*-crafty? Oddly, I can get the meaning, but what kind of word is that? (anyone who comes back with Rohirrin gets slapped with a wet trout). Class is mind numbingly boring tonight. [/QUOTE] Of course it shows up again in dwimmerlaik (what Eowyn calls the head Nazgul. For a long time I thought she was referring to the Fell Beast he rode on.) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/219 "2007-10-31T06:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I like Boromir’s last words to Aragorn, but his whole dying routine goes on waaaay too long, considering that he’s been turned into a Gondorian pincushion. It’s almost parodic by the end. [/QUOTE] Think of it as opera. You know – where when someone gets stabbed, instead of dying, they sing. I liked the part immediately afterwards when Aragorn is putting on Boromir’s bracers. In the commentary someone said it was in honor of his memory. The throught that wrent through my mind at the time was, “If you die, we’re divvying your stuff.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/220 "2007-10-31T09:15:58Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Ok, so on now to TT. But one more question re FOTR. Why does Aragorn reprmand Frodo re his mentioning of Gandalf wearing the elven ring? Aragorn says that such should not be said, not even to him outside of Lo`rien. [/QUOTE] Eh? In the book, it’s Galadriel’s Ring that Frodo mentions - no-one knows that Gandalf has Narya the Great until long after the action is over. It was established well before the you don’t alktay about ethay eethray ingsray - at the Council of Elrond Gloin (IIRC) asked about them and what use they were being put to, and the elves shut up smartly, and the only answer Gloin got was “It is not permitted to speak of them, but they are not idle”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287.md?page=12)