# LOTR question(s) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [October 28, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287 "2007-10-28T01:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/381 "2007-11-08T00:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] So I Google “Moucha” expecting to see somethiong like [this,](http://www.booksplendour.com.au/gallery/classics/Mucha/Image7mucha.jpg) and what I get as the first image is [this.](http://www.fe.cz/galerie/makro/moucha-2.jpg) (warning! safe for work but amusingly shocking). :eek: [/QUOTE] Oops! A typo–forgive me. (but that is funny as hell). I liked the scene of Ewoyn and the WK, but I think the pace of it is off–she had more to fear from that nasty Orc, than the WK (which is messed up). Yeah-Arwen’s always been pretty meh for me. And Liv isn’t regal enough to carry it off. It needs a Brit with high cheekbones and a certain demeanor, IMO. A young Helen Mirren or a (can’t think of any young Brit acrtresses who fit the bill). And the guy who thought Viggo was too pretty to play Aragorn is out of his head. That is a huge role to encompass, and Viggo did it well. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/382 "2007-11-08T01:03:57Z")
[Elves](http://www.calendars.com/images/070/7095/200700005166_fc.jpg) [MaxfieldParrishanother elf](http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/7/4/Maxfield-Parrish-Ecstasy-7492.jpg) And this could be: [Arwen](http://www.linesandcolors.com/images/2006-01/mucha_250.jpg) [Galadriel](http://www.booksplendour.net/gallery/classics/Mucha/Image23mucha.jpg). But not quite so soft… but the lushness, the serenity and otherness… ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/383 "2007-11-08T01:12:38Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] More than an early script draft. They filmed it! Check out some of the special features on the ROTK expanded edition to see what Annatar looks like. [/QUOTE] Okay, this is making me nuts. The ‘index trees’ in the extended edition are far more confusing than anything Tolkien ever came up with. Where the heck is this scene hiding? There’s a storyboard animatic that illustrates the proposed sequence, but I haven’t been able to locate the film version. Do I even have the right ‘extended edition,’ I wonder? Was there an ‘extra-extended edition’ released later? I wouldn’t put it past them… I’m not hugely troubled by most of the changes Jackson made to the story, but I have to wonder what he was smoking to even consider such a scene, especially alongside the proposed bit where Frodo kills Gollum! One shudders to imagine the consequences to the fanbase had such a scene actually found its way into the final film. There may have been fatalities. I can only conclude that this was some sort of final contingency plan on Peter Jackson’s part, to dramatically sabotage the trilogy right at the climax, and then escape in the confusion by rocket-pod with all his ill-gotten loot. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/384 "2007-11-08T02:00:28Z")
I have the 3 EEs that came out awhile back and I couldn’t find it either… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/385 "2007-11-08T22:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] …I’ll also do Arwen… [/QUOTE] ::sighing wistfully, with a silly smile on my face:: Oh, yes. Many of us would. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/386 "2007-11-09T13:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I have the 3 EEs that came out awhile back and I couldn’t find it either… [/QUOTE] I haven’t had time to check my disks, but this link shows a still photo that I remember from the scene, and states that the scene is found in “The Appendices: The War of the Ring” DVD. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Annatar.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Annatar.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/387 "2007-11-09T13:37:46Z")
Might be here in disk 3. Here’s the table of contents: THE APPENDICES PART V: “The War of the Ring” Disc intro by director Peter Jackson “J.R.R. Tolkien: The Legacy of Middle-earth” documentary From Book to Script: “From Book to Script: Forging the Final Chapter” documentary \*\* Abandoned Concept: Aragorn Battles Sauron\*\* > **[WarnerBros.com | The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring | Movies](https://www.warnerbros.com/movies/lord-rings-fellowship-ring)** > > \In the first part of J.R.R. Tolkien's epic masterpiece, The Lord of the Rings, a shy young hobbit named Frodo Baggins inherits a simple gold ring.\ ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/388 "2007-11-09T14:11:07Z")
So is that the extended edition or the special extended edition or the extra special with sugar on top e.e.? Grrrrrr. I am not going out and giving New Line or PJ any more money to see anything. Bah. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/389 "2007-11-09T17:25:58Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] I haven’t had time to check my disks, but this link shows a still photo that I remember from the scene, and states that the scene is found in “The Appendices: The War of the Ring” DVD. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Annatar.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Annatar.jpg) [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Might be here in disk 3. Here’s the table of contents: > > THE APPENDICES PART V: “The War of the Ring” > Disc intro by director Peter Jackson > “J.R.R. Tolkien: The Legacy of Middle-earth” documentary > > From Book to Script: “From Book to Script: Forging the Final Chapter” documentary > Abandoned Concept: Aragorn Battles Sauron Well, kerfooey. The “Abandoned Concept” section on my disc consists of the aforementioned crude storyboard animatic, which depicts Sauron more or less as he appeared in the prologue, except less detailed and more Dungeons-and-Dragonsy. The Wikipedia image is wholly unfamiliar to me (so much for Sauron not being able to assume a fair shape!). Unless there’s some sort of hidden “Easter egg” somewhere, I guess I got rooked. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/390 "2007-11-10T05:56:59Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] So is that the extended edition or the special extended edition or the extra special with sugar on top e.e.? Grrrrrr. I am not going out and giving New Line or PJ any more money to see anything. Bah. [/QUOTE] There have only been 2 editions, the theatrical release and the Extended Edition. They did put out a collector’s Edition, but it basically just added a statue of some kind to the EE package. And it was put out at the same time as the EE. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/391 "2007-11-15T02:06:15Z")
OK, 39 minutes into disc 3 of the EE version of ROTK, there’s a 3 to 4 minute piece on the filming of Aragorn meeting “Annatar, Lord of Gifts” (Sauron’s guise before the Noldorin Elves of Eregion, when he suborned them), then doing battle with Sauron. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/392 "2007-11-15T02:48:50Z")
Son of a buck, there he is! _Yé! utúvienyes!_ I have found it!\* Thanks **Qadgop**! You rule! (What was that?-- _“Why’d you get the EE anyway if you’re not going to pay attention to the flippin’ discs?”_ --Strange, I thought I felt a psychic wind…) Anyway. Wow, that was a profoundly ill-concieved notion, wasn’t it? That was just nuts. Although now that I think about it, if PJ really did want Aragorn to fight some representation of Sauron, he blew the opportunity twice over, because he could have just used the Mouth of Sauron character. Honestly I think that probably would have been more appropriate than the cursory way the Mouth was dispatched in the film. That was one of the few moments that really did rub me the wrong way–\* “Though you are our enemy, we honor your status as messenger-- opps, no we don’t! You’re dead!” \* Real kingly. The Mouth was supposedly a corrupted Numenorean himself; so he would have made a supremely formidable opponent. He was a sorceror too, so there could have been spellcasting into the bargain. Instead of an ignominious Boba Fett-like end, he could have laid the smackdown on Aragorn while empowered by the gaze of the Eye. It could have been a duel of epic proportions. The battle could have raged on for ten, fifteen minutes easily… …On the other hand, maybe it’s just as well it didn’t. \*–that is to say, “ **Qadgop the Mercotan** found it for me!” Which I don’t know how to say in Elvish. But it’s the thought that counts. Anyway: yé. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/393 "2007-11-15T13:25:10Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Son of a buck, there he is! _Yé! utúvienyes!_ I have found it!\* Thanks **Qadgop**! You rule! (What was that?-- _“Why’d you get the EE anyway if you’re not going to pay attention to the flippin’ discs?”_ --Strange, I thought I felt a psychic wind…) Anyway. Wow, that was a profoundly ill-concieved notion, wasn’t it? That was just nuts. [/quote] I just got the movies this weekend and spent Saturday watching all three in a row. I will have to take a look at the extras now. I can’t believe they even considered that. Thank goodness someone held him back. > [@](#): > > Although now that I think about it, if PJ really did want Aragorn to fight some representation of Sauron, he blew the opportunity twice over, because he could have just used the Mouth of Sauron character. Honestly I think that probably would have been more appropriate than the cursory way the Mouth was dispatched in the film. That was one of the few moments that really did rub me the wrong way–\* “Though you are our enemy, we honor your status as messenger-- opps, no we don’t! You’re dead!” \* Real kingly. > > The Mouth was supposedly a corrupted Numenorean himself; so he would have made a supremely formidable opponent. He was a sorceror too, so there could have been spellcasting into the bargain. Instead of an ignominious Boba Fett-like end, he could have laid the smackdown on Aragorn while empowered by the gaze of the Eye. It could have been a duel of epic proportions. The battle could have raged on for ten, fifteen minutes easily… > > …On the other hand, maybe it’s just as well it didn’t. This is the first time I saw the EE of the second two movies. While I generally liked what Jackson did with them, he seems to have a serious problem with lack of subtlety. Eye of Sauron? I guess that means there is a giant flaming eye on his tower. Ugh. That I actually let him off the hook for when I saw the theatrical release, as it was still possible to take it as an extended metaphor. The EE was terrible with this though. Sam actually yells a Frodo to duck because the giant flaming lighthouse eye was pointing at them. It then got distracted by Aragorn’s beheading of the Mouth of Sauron in an absolutely horrific attempt to underline just how critical it was that their little army attacked at just that time. No subtlety whatsoever, and absolutely unnecessary. Speaking of the Mouth, Illuvatar save us. Just like with the eye, Captain Literal went overboard. Now the only feature of mention on the character is his giant, CGIed, constantly mugging for the camera, mouth. Come on, that was more comic than scary or intimidating. The coup de grace of stupidity for the character was his beheading. Not like that was any kind of change for the character of Aragorn up to that point. Too bad he did it this way as I particularly liked the Mouth’s dialog. So, I love the movies and I absolutely understand all the cuts to it Jackson needed to do to make it filmable. Fine. I understand he tweaked some things to match his own artistic vision. Sure, I can go along with that. But Captain Literal and his motivation-changing deputies were too much. I think I may want to go back to the theatrical release of the third movie. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/394 "2007-11-15T15:14:25Z")
[QUOTE=flight] Sam actually yells a Frodo to duck because the giant flaming lighthouse eye was pointing at them. It then got distracted by Aragorn’s beheading of the Mouth of Sauron in an absolutely horrific attempt to underline just how critical it was that their little army attacked at just that time. No subtlety whatsoever, and absolutely unnecessary. [/quote] You’ll be interested to hear what Peter Jackson has to say about that bit on the third disc; I know I was. It actually ties directly back to the scenes of Sauron that were filmed, which were recycled for that sequence. > [@](#): > > Speaking of the Mouth, Illuvatar save us. Just like with the eye, Captain Literal went overboard. Now the only feature of mention on the character is his giant, CGIed, constantly mugging for the camera, mouth. I’m not sure the Mouth’s mouth was CGI-enhanced, actually. The actor was [Bruce Spence](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/1/1f/BruceSpence.jpg/200px-BruceSpence.jpg) from the “Mad Max” movies, who has an impressively wide gob. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/395 "2007-11-15T16:20:32Z")
No, while I can’t quote chapter & verse from the extended DVDs, the mouth was digitally enhanced. (And Aragorn shouldn’t have chopped his head off. Boo.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/396 "2025-11-03T03:33:35Z")
Bumped. [Aragorn / Destiny: A good compilation of clips from the _LOTR_ movies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Dn3ngRp8c) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/397 "2025-11-03T15:44:07Z")
Chills. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/398 "2025-11-03T16:32:38Z")
They should have included the scene where he’s sampling Eowyn’s stew. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/399 "2025-11-03T16:42:12Z")
Here’s a fun video that combines Led Zeppelin’s “Battle of Evermore” with LOTR clips. It’s one of many, but it’s one of the better examples, IMHO. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3xB9Kyn9vZY/maxresdefault.jpg "The Lord of the Rings - The Battle of Evermore | FMV") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xB9Kyn9vZY) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287/400 "2025-11-03T16:46:37Z")
Best thing I have seen (and am likely to see) this week…heck…month! Thanks. Love it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-s/424287.md?page=19)