# LOTR question: The Rohirrim **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702 "2013-02-18T15:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/41 "2013-02-20T12:48:27Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > However, in The Hobbit, they lugged all the Dwarves (including the distinctly un-featherweight Bombur) all the way from the Misty Mountains to the Carrock, so clearly they are capable of some long-distance haulage when required. I don’t think they would have trouble ferrying men around, even those of such advanced muscular development as Aragorn or Boromir. The distance between Rohan or Gondor and Rivendell is CONSIDERABLY longer than the distance from the Goblin-Gate to the Carrock. By several orders of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/42 "2013-02-20T12:50:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And the delivery guys can never find the Hidden Vale in 30 minutes or less, so it’s always free. \ This pizza-delivery related quip made me realise that Elrond’s relationship to Aragorn is similar to that between a certain pizza-delivery-boy and his distant nephew. Elrond is Aragorn’s 62 x great uncle, apparently, while Fry is Farnsworth’s 30 x great uncle. Aragorn’s family tree is of course many thousands of years longer than Farnsworth’s, but his ancestors lived longer. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/43 "2013-02-22T01:42:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :eek: Oops. Um, your minions aren’t required to report to the authorities anything that might be… of interest, are they? ! Why on Earth would the minions talk to the cops? Even if for some reason I found it needful to frame you, they’d have brought the contraband themselves, planted it, and then arranged an anonymous tiip. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/44 "2013-02-22T01:55:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why on Earth would the minions talk to the cops? Even if for some reason I found it needful to frame you, they’d have brought the contraband themselves, planted it, and then arranged an anonymous tiip. I can’t decide if you’ve been reading _The Last Ring Bearer_ or _Bored of the Rings._ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/45 "2013-02-22T02:06:02Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I can’t decide if you’ve been reading _The Last Ring Bearer_ or _Bored of the Rings._ I’ve never even heard of the former, and couldn’t make it through the latter. I’m not a fan of parodies. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/46 "2013-02-22T02:18:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’ve never even heard of the former, and couldn’t make it through the latter. I’m not a fan of parodies. :eek: Don’t both these stanzas speak to you? > [@](#): > > A Elbereth Gilthoniël > o menel palan-díriël, > le nallon sí di’-nguruthos! > A tíro nin, Fanuilos! > [@](#): > > Grundig blaupunkt luger frug > watusi snarf wazoo > Nixon Dirksen nasahist > Rebozo boogaloo! Everwhite vs. Everclear! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/47 "2013-02-22T03:08:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’ve never even heard of the former, and couldn’t make it through the latter. I’m not a fan of parodies. Ah, the Rooskie Commie\* Last Ring Bearer.\* Shame! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/48 "2013-02-22T04:18:38Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Don’t both these stanzas speak to you? My favorite line: > [@](#): > > “Pyongyang panmunjom,” shouted the narc chieftain. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/49 "2013-02-22T15:50:27Z")
Hated Bored of the Rings so much. There were maybe three times I smiled during the whole damn book. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/50 "2013-02-22T16:27:22Z")
You probably had to be 15 when you read it. _BotR_ quotes probably ate most of the last available long-term memory space in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/51 "2013-02-22T16:28:04Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Hated Bored of the Rings so much. There were maybe three times I smiled during the whole damn book. May I ask how old you are? I tend to think that appreciation of BOTR often depends in part on whether you came of age during the 60’s. The book employed that era’s cultural trends and memes (NOT the petty dwarf!) pretty well. But it would fall flat for those not familiar with jargon and imagery it invoked. In many ways, it’s now as dated as a 1990’s SNL skit. (The '70s skits are still classic, of course!) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/52 "2013-02-22T16:42:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why on Earth would the minions talk to the cops? Even if for some reason I found it needful to frame you, they’d have brought the contraband themselves, planted it, and then arranged an anonymous tiip. You relieve my mind immeasurably. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/53 "2013-02-22T18:42:31Z")
Yeah I remembered Elrond and I think Gandalf discussing who else would or would not come to the council and Tom Bombadil and several others “would not come” and I must have conflated teh book with the movie, which we watched a couple days ago. > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > May I ask how old you are? I tend to think that appreciation of BOTR often depends in part on whether you came of age during the 60’s. The book employed that era’s cultural trends and memes (NOT the petty dwarf!) pretty well. But it would fall flat for those not familiar with jargon and imagery it invoked. > > In many ways, it’s now as dated as a 1990’s SNL skit. (The '70s skits are still classic, of course!) I was read BOTR when I was a teen in the late 80’s and it still makes me laugh just thinking about Arrowshirt’s armor falling off and getting his sword stuck in the ceiling when he’s striking a dramatic pose. Also (from distant memory): “You have ridden far” “You are in much danger” “You leave at dawn” or something like that…\ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/54 "2013-02-22T20:58:48Z")
“you cash in your chips on page eigthy-eight.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/55 "2013-02-22T21:01:51Z")
“Many good men and true had fallen: the brothers Handlebar and Hersheybar, and Eorache’s uncle, the trusty Eordrum.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/56 "2013-02-22T21:23:22Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > Yeah I remembered Elrond and I think Gandalf discussing who else would or would not come to the council and Tom Bombadil and several others “would not come” and I must have conflated teh book with the movie, which we watched a couple days ago. As I think on it, you’re right; one of the Elf-lords does allow himself a moment’s regret that they didn’t call Bombadil, and Gandalf replies that it doesn’t matter; he wouldn’t have come and giving him the Ring to keep would have been a serious mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/57 "2013-02-22T22:59:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > As I think on it, you’re right; one of the Elf-lords does allow himself a moment’s regret that they didn’t call Bombadil, and Gandalf replies that it doesn’t matter; he wouldn’t have come and giving him the Ring to keep would have been a serious mistake. It was Elrond himself, in fact, with Erestor on the follow-up question. Bombadi’s home l is not as far away as many of the others–around 450 miles, much of it on decent roads. (Minas Tirith, on the other hand, would be about 1200 miles away by way of the Gap of Rohan.) A messenger on a fast horse could probably reach the Old Forest in about 5 days. Return time depends on Tom’s response and travel speed. The messenger could return with Tom’s refusal, but (barring magical elf-steed stamina) it would take longer than the initial leg; the horse, at least, would need rest. Figure 12 days for a round trip, and perhaps 15 or more if Tom rides along. Frodo spent 4 days recuperating between his arrival and the Council. If Elrond had decided immediately upon his arrival to call a Council, and remembered and sent a messenger for Bombadil at once, they would have had to wait an additional 8 days to know whether or not he was coming, and 11 days if they expected him to show. Given the situation, I don’t think he would have been willing to wait that long. So, it was an odd thing for Elrond to say, unless… 1. Elven messengers are faster than I’m estimating. (Entirely possible.) 2. He actually decided to call the Council well before Frodo arrived, but not months in advance. Perhaps when Gandalf arrived, or even earlier, once he took account of all the far travelers that had gathered. 3. He has some faster way of communicating than sending messengers out on horseback, a notion not supported by the text and evidently annoying to **Skald** , so I’ll leave it be. > [@Elrond](#): > > But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men,and other names beside. He is a strange creature, but maybe I should have summoned him to our Council.’ > `He would not have come,' said Gandalf. `Could we not still send messages to him and obtain his help?’ asked Erestor. `It seems that he has a power even over the Ring.' `No, I should not put it so,’ said Gandalf. `Say rather that the Ring has no power over him. He is his own master. But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others. And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them.' `But within those bounds nothing seems to dismay him,’ said Erestor. `Would he not take the Ring and keep it there, for ever harmless?' `No,’ said Gandalf, `not willingly. He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need. And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough.’ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/58 "2013-02-22T23:12:08Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > It was Elrond himself, in fact, with Erestor on the follow-up question. Bombadi’s home l is not as far away as many of the others–around 450 miles, much of it on decent roads. (Minas Tirith, on the other hand, would be about 1200 miles away by way of the Gap of Rohan.) A messenger on a fast horse could probably reach the Old Forest in about 5 days. Return time depends on Tom’s response and travel speed. The messenger could return with Tom’s refusal, but (barring magical elf-steed stamina) it would take longer than the initial leg; the horse, at least, would need rest. Figure 12 days for a round trip, and perhaps 15 or more if Tom rides along. > > Frodo spent 4 days recuperating between his arrival and the Council. If Elrond had decided immediately upon his arrival to call a Council, and remembered and sent a messenger for Bombadil at once, they would have had to wait an additional 8 days to know whether or not he was coming, and 11 days if they expected him to show. Given the situation, I don’t think he would have been willing to wait that long. > > So, it was an odd thing for Elrond to say, unless… > > 1. Elven messengers are faster than I’m estimating. (Entirely possible.) > > 2. He actually decided to call the Council well before Frodo arrived, but not months in advance. Perhaps when Gandalf arrived, or even earlier, once he took account of all the far travelers that had gathered. > > 3. He has some faster way of communicating than sending messengers out on horseback, a notion not supported by the text and evidently annoying to **Skald** , so I’ll leave it be. It’s the notion that Elrond sent a message to DENETHOR that I find annoying. (Plus I’m a curmudgeon.) But I also get annoyed when movies in general compress action down to ridiculous lengths. Jackson’s movies don’t generally fall victim to that, incidentally. There’s plenty of lines to establish that we’re only seeing the highlights of the heroes’ journey, not the entire thing. The hobbits change clothes between Brandywine and Bree, for instance; it was obvious to me, even having not read the book yet, that they’d stopped off somewhere in between (likely at Merry’s home) to better prepare themselves for the journey. After Frodo is injured the first time, Sam comments that it’s three days to Rivendell; Gandalf says that it’ll take 40 days simply to get to the Misty Mountains. Et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/59 "2013-02-22T23:38:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s the notion that Elrond sent a message to DENETHOR that I find annoying. (Plus I’m a curmudgeon.) > > But I also get annoyed when movies in general compress action down to ridiculous lengths. Jackson’s movies don’t generally fall victim to that, incidentally. There’s plenty of lines to establish that we’re only seeing the highlights of the heroes’ journey, not the entire thing. The hobbits change clothes between Brandywine and Bree, for instance; it was obvious to me, even having not read the book yet, that they’d stopped off somewhere in between (likely at Merry’s home) to better prepare themselves for the journey. After Frodo is injured the first time, Sam comments that it’s three days to Rivendell; Gandalf says that it’ll take 40 days simply to get to the Misty Mountains. > > Et cetera. In the LOTR movie, Gandalf said the Company should hold a course west of the MM for 40 days, on the first leg of the ring going south. But yeah, I agree they do pretty well with indicating the passage of times in those three movies, setting aside the time when Elrond traveled to Rohan seemingly overnight just so he could hand Aragorn his sword. OTOH, Jackson’s Hobbit movie seems to be compressing time ridiculously, in that apparently (though we can’t be sure until another movie appears) the trilogy is the origin story of the Witch King, who in the books had been hanging around ME for 1600ish years but in the movie he’s 1540 years late. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702/60 "2013-02-22T23:46:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s the notion that Elrond sent a message to DENETHOR that I find annoying. Yes, that’s the really over-the-top bit. My point was, at least in part, that it would have been impractical even to send a message to the Old Forest. Sending one to a city nearly three times as far away, with more serious hazards along the way, makes no sense at all in this context. (The barrow-wights should not be a problem for an elf, but Saruman might be another matter.) It took Boromir over three months (110 days, he says) to make the trip, and he arrived on the day of the Council. Even assuming a tireless elf and a horse liquored up on _miruvor_, the messenger would have had to start out at least 4 to 5 months before the Council. If Elrond planned the meeting that far in advance, why didn’t he send anyone to Frodo? Oh, wait–if he had, his summons would have arrived _before Gandalf even left Hobbiton_. And yes, that part of the EE stands out partly because Jackson generally did a much better job with timescales. (Of course, I also dislike it because I dislike pretty much every moment of screentime for Denethor.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-the-rohirrim/650702.md?page=4)