# LOTR Question - Who else could have carried the ring? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810 "2006-04-15T21:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/41 "2006-04-17T04:01:16Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > that segment which Eru raised to counter Melkor’s attack on the nitrogen fixation cycle. _Oh god._ Dad, I think I hurt myself laughing at that one… heh… Melkor’s attack on the nitrogen fixation cycle… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/42 "2006-04-17T04:26:50Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > He seems like an outdoorsy, earth-tones kind of guy; the lure of the Ring would have been less likely to tempt him. Radagast’s concerns are allied most with the welfare of wild creatures, so that a thing of craft like the Ring would have held no appeal for him. I can’t see him being drawn to its use in the same way as Gandalf the fireworks distributor might have been, or even Galadriel, who after all was one of the Noldor (who were historically sort of chuckle-headed where such things were concerned). With his wisdom of nature’s ways, he would likely have realized that the Ring could never be used to heal, only to command; and every step toward Mordor would have only strengthened that resolve as the works of Sauron became more apparent. The One Ring _would_ have given him power over the Three, and other lesser Elven rings, which were among other things created to preserve the land. I can see him being tempted to take them, and use them and the One to preserve the land from those nasty farmers and hunters. Then, say, rousing the Ents and Huorns to better protect the lands; then the Eagles, and so on. Assuming Sauron didn’t just take the Ring from him ( which he would ), I could see him turning into the Dark Lord of the ecology, reshaping the land into a Dark Forest that grows over the world and destroys everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/43 "2006-04-17T12:53:40Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Well a hobbit-type called Gollum hung on to the Ring for thousands of years, only using it to catch fish and dodge goblins. I think it suited the Ring not to be found at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/44 "2006-04-17T14:53:01Z")
Don’t loose sight of the fact that Radagast _failed_ as one of the Istari. All he had to do was chat up the people of Middle-Earth, tell them to keep a stiff upper lip, that sort of thing. But, no. He has to go off to play with the bunnies and birds. That wizard may have been a granola eater, but didn’t have a lot of moral fibre. Had anyone given Radagast the Ring, he’d have probably sat in his woods and done nothing with it, until the End – much like Tom Bombadil would have done. More likely, Radagast would have squirreled it away with all the other “shineys” I’m sure he’d collected over the centuries. Also, that’s not an umlaut; it’s a diaresis. It’s there to tell you to voice the “ë”, not to shift its pronounciation. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/45 "2006-04-17T15:09:19Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > heh… Melkor’s attack on the nitrogen fixation cycle… It’s like your grandpa always said, hon. The devil’s in the details. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/46 "2006-04-17T15:09:31Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > From Chapter 2, “shadow of the past” in FOTR. Gandalf is speaking: > > To wrestle with the full implications of the statement, one must know a bit about JRRT’s theological outlook, that of a devout Catholic. And one must also know some of the background mythology of Middle-Earth, to whit; there is no other power besides Sauron that could have influenced matters having to do with the ring save for Eru. I don’t completely buy that only Eru & Sauron could have influenced matters having to do with the Ring. You forget Manwe, just I have forgotten how to make a diaresieis. (Not to mention how to spell it.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/47 "2006-04-17T15:56:35Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > I don’t completely buy that only Eru & Sauron could have influenced matters having to do with the Ring. You forget Manwe, just I have forgotten how to make a diaresieis. (Not to mention how to spell it.) Extant writings by JRRT indicate that Manwë took counsel with himself (and Eru) prior to launching war against Morgoth to retrieve the Sils. And he did similar with the whole Sauron/ring imbroglio, and specifically elected to adopt a ‘hands off’ policy. At least that’s how I recall it. I lack my source material or the time to reference it at present. So with Manwë, perhaps he can influence the ring, but he won’t. Keep in mind also that since having been burned trying to order and manipulate the elves around, the Valar followed a similar ‘hands off’ policy towards mortals. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/48 "2006-04-17T17:42:57Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Extant writings by JRRT indicate that Manwë took counsel with himself (and Eru) prior to launching war against Morgoth to retrieve the Sils. And he did similar with the whole Sauron/ring imbroglio, and specifically elected to adopt a ‘hands off’ policy. > > At least that’s how I recall it. I lack my source material or the time to reference it at present. So with Manwë, perhaps he can influence the ring, but he won’t. > > Keep in mind also that since having been burned trying to order and manipulate the elves around, the Valar followed a similar ‘hands off’ policy towards mortals. Perhaps I was unclear–well, forget “perhaps.” I was obviously unclear. I’m quite aware that the Valar had a hands-off policy re: Middle-Earth politics (except to the extent of sending the Ishtar) and were not going to intervene directly in the ringwar; Gandalf says as much during the Council of Elrond, saying that, if they were to send the Ring over sea, those on the other side would send it back, as it was the responsibility of the peoples of ME to deal with. However, I was focusing on word “could,” which addresses capability, not willingness. I aver that Manwe or Varda COULD have taken the ring without ill effects to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/49 "2006-04-17T17:44:10Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Perhaps I was unclear–well, forget “perhaps.” I was obviously unclear. I’m quite aware that the Valar had a hands-off policy re: Middle-Earth politics (except to the extent of sending the **Ishtar** ). Pretend I wrote “Istari” there, everyone. :smack: I don’t think Erish-kigal’s sister cared about Middle-Earth one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/50 "2006-04-17T17:47:24Z")
Any of the Valar could have interfered in the fate of the Ring, but none of them could have done so as sublty as it came to pass. Remember, the last time Manwe interfered directly in the affairs of Middle-Earth, it was at the head of the mightiest army the World had ever known. Ulmo, perhaps, had a bit more subtlety, but his potential influence would have ended when the Ring was taken out of the river. At most, he might have been responsible for it being unfound for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/51 "2006-04-17T17:48:31Z")
The answer is almost certainly no one. > [@JRRT](#): > > Elrond raised his eyes and looked at him, and Frodo felt his heart pierced by the sudden keenness of the glance. ‘If I understand aright all that I have heard,’ he said, 'I think that this task is appointed to you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/52 "2006-04-17T18:33:05Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Pretend I wrote “Istari” there, everyone. :smack: I don’t think Erish-kigal’s sister cared about Middle-Earth one way or the other. But Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman could be fans. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/53 "2006-04-17T18:33:07Z")
Bwahaha. Love the thread. > [@Lightray](#): > > Also, that’s not an umlaut; it’s a diaresis. It’s there to tell you to voice the “ë”, not to shift its pronounciation. ?? Honest question–is this just a technical distinction between the mark itself and what the mark does? Or are you saying that there are really two different functions? A flaming umlaut would be a bronze brazier, with two little smokestacks for the flames–a linguistic eternal funereal flame. (One could stick it on a pole and thrust it at orcs and nazgul and spiders and such in extremis.) Note that Frodo only carried the ring–no one, not even Frodo, could destroy it in the face of the fires in which it was made. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/54 "2006-04-17T18:40:06Z")
Well, this is looking like the most successful thread i’ve started. Yay! 😛 Anyway, I have a further question. What’s stopping Frodo just putting the ring on a chicken or something, and then just carrying the chicken in a box? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/55 "2006-04-17T18:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, I have a further question. What’s stopping Frodo just putting the ring on a chicken or something, and then just carrying the chicken in a box? “_Nuggets…and flame!_” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/56 "2006-04-17T18:44:13Z")
Here’s a nice page on how to interpret JRRT’s diacritical markings: [http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/diacritics.html](http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/diacritics.html) And it goes on to talk about how mistaking the diaeresis for an umlaut leads to sorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/57 "2006-04-17T18:46:32Z")
And **Lightray**? Thanks for opening that particular can of worms! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/58 "2006-04-17T18:47:04Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Well, this is looking like the most successful thread i’ve started. Yay! 😛 > > Anyway, I have a further question. What’s stopping Frodo just putting the ring on a chicken or something, and then just carrying the chicken in a box? That would have brought the Nazgul to him. They came running whenever anyone wore the ring. I think a chciken with its head cut off by a morgal blade would still run around flapping its wings for 30 seconds. Could you imagine what a chicken would have done with the ring of power? People would have lined up to bring worms, greens and grain to an invisible chicken… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/59 "2006-04-17T19:45:05Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > And **Lightray**? Thanks for opening that particular can of worms! 😃 Well, it was a bit of “neëner, neëner”, but it just didn’t feel like a Tolkien discussion without any linguistic indignation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810/60 "2006-04-17T19:48:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, I have a further question. What’s stopping Frodo just putting the ring on a chicken or something, and then just carrying the chicken in a box? The same thing that stops him from just carrying the damned thing on a chain around his neck, without actually wearing it. It calls to its wearer, and it’s very difficult to resist that call. If he were to do as you describe, he’d feel the incessant urge to choke the chicken and take the ring back. Plus the difficulty in giving it up in the first place, even though only to an animal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-who-else-could-have-carried-the-ring/352810.md?page=4)