# LOTR Question: Why did Sauron need the ring? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 2, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225 "2012-08-02T22:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/21 "2012-08-03T07:29:15Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Another factor to consider is that the free people of ME were a lot weaker in the Third Age. That is, they simply didn’t have the power to mass the sort of army that could lay siege to Mordor and confront Sauron. That power had long since left ME. > > Of course, even if Sauron won couldn’t the Maia have just come down and beaten him like they did to Melkor? Valar, and yes, they certainly had the power, but it’s unclear whether they would ever have actually done so. The War of Wrath certainly fixed Morgoth’s wagon, but the collateral damage was inconceivable (and I use this word knowing it means exactly what I think it means). Gandalf never talks of any hope of rescue from beyond the Sea - but then, of course, it’s not Gandalf’s job to do that, but to motivate the Free Peoples to do what they can with what they have. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/22 "2012-08-03T09:03:22Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > Behold! > > The Rings of Alka Seltzer! Has the company been taken over by [Polo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polo_(confectionery))? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/23 "2012-08-03T11:34:07Z")
Did the Ring really let Sauron do anything he couldn’t have done on his own? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/24 "2012-08-03T12:03:08Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Did the Ring really let Sauron do anything he couldn’t have done on his own? Short answer, yes. The [FAQ of the rings](http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm) will answer your question in far more detail than I can. I think you want [section E](http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#H3-One), which deals with the one ring. In particular, [this answer](http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Powers) enumerates the powers of the one. Other sections fill in the background. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/25 "2012-08-03T14:21:37Z")
Yeah, good point. What a piece of crap! 😉 But, I think they do point out that the elves have been leaving and the kingdoms of Gondor and Rohan are not what they once were, and that they would not likely be able to opposed the newly amassed armies of Mordor under a fully restored Sauron. And thus that plan was rejected. . . but, this may not have been explicitly stated. ---
**Author:** ![bramma23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@bramma23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bramma23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/26 "2012-08-03T15:55:39Z")
Plus it’s tricky to compare Sauron from the Second Age to the one we see in the movies or read about in LOTR, most importantly because while the ring makes Sauron more powerful, without it he is less powerful (than he was before the ring) because a great deal of his original power was used and transferred into the ring. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/27 "2012-08-03T16:15:19Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > And once we figure this out this pressing question, I really want an answer to the question: what does God want with a starship!?!? To go out cruising for chicks? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/28 "2012-08-03T16:20:35Z")
It also seems to be the case that the Ring wanted to return to Sauron, so the attraction ran both ways. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/29 "2012-08-03T18:42:10Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > The Rings of Alka Seltzer! Destroying them is much less dramatic. Just drop them into any glass of water (of Doom). ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/30 "2012-08-03T19:00:19Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Destroying them is much less dramatic. Just drop them into any glass of water (of Doom). My world! My beautiful world… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/31 "2012-08-03T22:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > LOTR Question: Why did Sauron need the ring? Matching earrings? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/32 "2012-08-03T23:14:12Z")
I’ve always seen it as, in the RPG Champions terms, he sold off all his stats and then bought them back through an IIF (so they were higher than they would have been). Total power-gamer move. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/33 "2012-08-03T23:17:25Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Matching earrings? Since there was just the One Ring, I always assume it was a PA piercing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/34 "2012-08-03T23:19:21Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Here’s my question: Why did Gandalf straightaway reject the mouth of Sauron’s terms at the gates of Mordor and chose instead to retrieve: > > 1. the mithril coat, > 2. the elvish cloak, and > 3. the westernesse sword? > > Did Gandalf believe Frodo was still alive since the sting was missing? Or, dead or alive, Sauron’s terms were unacceptable? The emissary referred to the hobbits as ‘spies’. Sauron clearly didn’t know what they’d been trying to do. Gandalf knew\* the mission had not actually completely failed, and the ring had not been found. Maybe Frodo had been killed, but the emissary only mentions one ‘captive’ ‘spy’ implying that at least one of the hobbits had escaped and was still alive, free, and able to destroy the ring. In the book, Gandalf only rejects the terms after demanding to see the captive: > [@Tolkien](#): > > It seemed then to Gandalf, intent, watching him as a man engaged in fencing with a deadly foe, that for the taking of a breath the Messenger was at a loss; yet swiftly he laughed again. Sauron is very good at getting information out of captives, that taken with the emissary’s reaction tells him that they probably never had a captive, so either Sauron’s forces killed a hobbit, in which case it’s too late to try and bargain for his release; or it’s all a trick, and Sauron just has some stuff, and no hobbit. - Unless both hobbits were killed, and someone like a rebel orc or Smeagol currently has the ring, in which case Sauron has no control, and treating with him can’t change anything. ETA: Y’all missed a big reason for why Sauron needs the ring: if you destroy it _he dies_. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/35 "2012-08-03T23:22:36Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > He refused Sauron’s terms because **[Gandalf](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gandalf)** serves **[Ilúvatar](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Il%C3%BAvatar)** and **[Sauron](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Sauron)** serves **[Melkor](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Morgoth)** and wants to destroy **[creation](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Music_of_the_Ainur)**/prevent the inevitable destruction of Melkor. Sauron isn’t the Prime Evil of Middle Earth, he’s just the “right hand” of the Prime Evil. There’s AFAIK no indication in TLoTR that Sauron still cared about Melkor. He _used_ to be his right hand. But since Melkor had been conveniently disposed of, what not to like in becoming the big honcho himself? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/36 "2012-08-03T23:27:45Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Since there was just the One Ring, I always assume it was a PA piercing. 😛 [Here you go.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLLS_GvSLRmc&ei=SF4cUKmMJurO2gWx4YCICQ&usg=AFQjCNGRFmiKE8h5ayONmJksAzfRs4LelQ) ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/37 "2012-08-03T23:37:44Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > [Here you go.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLLS_GvSLRmc&ei=SF4cUKmMJurO2gWx4YCICQ&usg=AFQjCNGRFmiKE8h5ayONmJksAzfRs4LelQ) The film Larry Flynt would have made. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/38 "2012-08-04T00:03:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > There’s AFAIK no indication in TLoTR that Sauron still cared about Melkor. He _used_ to be his right hand. But since Melkor had been conveniently disposed of, what not to like in becoming the big honcho himself? Well his work in Numenor where he works in establishing the worship of Melkor in place of Eru implies he never really stopped. Still Melkor’s big thing was in trying to replace Eru or wipe his existence from history and place himself as the prime creator. Sauron isn’t that much different, being worshiped as a god-king in the east. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/39 "2012-08-04T20:15:13Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It is not known if Gandalf used it, although it was associated with fire and Gandalf was handy with fireworks and **kindling the spirits** of the Allied races, so he may have. > [emphasis added–mbh] Gandalf & Co. walk into Theoden’s hall. Grima insults Gandalf. Gandalf insults Grima. Suddenly, Theoden fires Grima, and starts taking Gandalf’s advice. I am of the opinion that there may have been a ring at work there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225/40 "2012-08-05T16:47:06Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Gandalf & Co. walk into Theoden’s hall. Grima insults Gandalf. Gandalf insults Grima. > Suddenly, Theoden fires Grima, and starts taking Gandalf’s advice. > I am of the opinion that there may have been a ring at work there. Me too. May have. But I also wonder why Saruman didn’t seize the ring when he imprisoned Gandalf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-question-why-did-sauron-need-the-ring/630225.md?page=3)