# LOTR speculation: The terrible secret of Tom Bombadil **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980 "2013-08-23T16:32:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/1 "2013-08-23T16:32:09Z")
> **[Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil](https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html)** > > (This is another of my speculative pieces and nothing to do with Star Wars. This one is for an older trilogy.) Old Tom Bombadil. Possibly the least liked character in The Lord of the Rings. A childish figure so disliked by fans of the book that few... I thought this was a fun speculative piece. It’s almost an argument for Tom Bombadil being a Lovecraftian Elder God. I wonder if the Entwives fell under his grasp and became the terrible, twisted, hate-filled trees like Old Man Willow we all know and love from the Old Forest. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/2 "2013-08-23T16:42:11Z")
Oh, that’s inspired. Twisted, bizarre, but inspired. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/3 "2013-08-23T16:47:56Z")
Very interesting. Now I feel like I have to go back and re-read some stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/4 "2013-08-23T16:55:52Z")
Me Likey. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/5 "2013-08-23T17:03:00Z")
Wow. I’ll never be able to read that part of the book again without thinking of this. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/6 "2013-08-23T17:03:25Z")
I dig the interpretation, though I was a little taken aback at the assertion that Bombadil is “possibly the least liked” character in LotR. I always really liked him. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/7 "2013-08-23T17:04:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I dig the interpretation, though I was a little taken aback at the assertion that Bombadil is “possibly the least liked” character in LotR. I always really liked him. Yeah, me too. Maybe because I always suspected he had a dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/8 "2013-08-23T17:07:49Z")
The first time I read LOTR, Tom B. was my favorite character. With each successive reading, I find I like him less and less, and now he’s a major annoyance. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/9 "2013-08-23T17:12:27Z")
This is incredible. I got chills. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/10 "2013-08-23T17:39:31Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The first time I read LOTR, Tom B. was my favorite character. With each successive reading, I find I like him less and less, and now he’s a major annoyance. I always wanted to read the story he was supposed to have been in and that he’d been left out of LOtR. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/11 "2013-08-23T17:43:18Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > I always wanted to read the story he was supposed to have been in and that he’d been left out of LOtR. Do you mean this? (from Wiki) \*\*The Adventures of Tom Bombadil \*\* Tolkien invented Tom Bombadil in memory of his children’s Dutch doll, and wrote light-hearted children’s poems about him, imagining him as a nature-spirit evocative of the English countryside. Tolkien’s 1934 poem “The Adventures of Tom Bombadil” depicts Bombadil as a “merry fellow” living in a small valley close to the Withywindle river, where he wanders and explores nature at his leisure. Several of the valley’s mysterious residents, including the River-spirit Goldberry (also known as the “River-woman’s daughter”), the malevolent tree-spirit Old Man Willow, the Badger-folk and a Barrow-wight all attempt to capture Bombadil for their own ends, but quail at the power of Tom’s voice, which defeats their enchantments and commands them to return to their natural existence. At the end of the poem, Bombadil captures and marries Goldberry. Throughout the poem, Bombadil is unconcerned by the attempts to capture him and brushes them off with an inherent power in his words. The later poem “Bombadil Goes Boating” anchors Bombadil in Middle-earth, featuring a journey down the Withywindle to the Brandywine river, where hobbits (“Little Folk I know there”) live at Hays-End. Bombadil is challenged by various river-residents on his journey, including birds, otters, and hobbits, but charms them all with his voice, ending his journey at the farm of Farmer Maggot, where he drinks ale and dances with the family. At the end of the poem, the charmed birds and otters work together to bring Bombadil’s boat home. The poem includes a reference to the Norse lay of Ótr, when Bombadil threatens to give the hide of a disrespectful otter to the Barrow-wights, who he says will cover it with gold apart from a single whisker. The poem mentions a number of Middle-earth locations, including Hays-End, Bree and the Tower Hills, and hints at the events of the end of the Third Age, speaking of “Tall Watchers by the Ford, Shadows on the Marches”. The poems were published in the collections The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and later in Tales from the Perilous Realm. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/12 "2013-08-23T18:22:25Z")
Could have used a bit more proof, but excellent essay nevertheless; thanks for sharing it. If you scroll down through the comments, someone does a capable job of refuting the piece. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/13 "2013-08-23T18:28:20Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > Could have used a bit more proof, but excellent essay nevertheless; thanks for sharing it. > > If you scroll down through the comments, someone does a capable job of refuting the piece. This excuse-maker has clearly fallen under the sway of the Mad Piper of the Barrow Downs. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/14 "2013-08-23T19:52:30Z")
It’s a fun read… maybe it will be an excuse for me to not skip over that section of the Fellowship next time I read it. But… it’s obviously not the author’s actual belief (he says so) and it only holds up if you make certain assumptions and exaggerations. Almost a shame really, because I’m in the camp of people who think it was a mistake to put Bombadil in the story at all. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/15 "2013-08-23T20:29:43Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Almost a shame really, because I’m in the camp of people who think it was a mistake to put Bombadil in the story at all. I don’t mind that Jackson decided to cut Bombadil from the film, but had he kept him in, I wish he could have been played by Tom Baker. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/16 "2013-08-23T21:56:27Z")
Lovecraft meets Tolkien… and bests him. Nice. I never liked Bombadil. I found him annoying, for his songs, dancing and brainless merriment, and frustrating, for his unwillingness or inability to help the Free Peoples in their fight against Sauron, despite hints of his vast and ancient power. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/17 "2013-08-23T22:14:50Z")
I prefer Tom Benzadril and Hashberry. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/18 "2013-08-23T22:22:54Z")
The analysis turns somewhat on the notion that Bombadil lives in a dangerous place filled with dangerous, evil things, so he must be eevil too. The counter to this is that Bombadil was so badass cool that he never even notices the dangerous nature of where he lives, because it’s not dangerous at all _to him_. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/19 "2013-08-24T02:11:02Z")
The cruel geometry, the eldritch cant: “Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dadar! Iar Wain, jolly wain, Iarwain Ben-adar!” ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980/20 "2013-08-24T03:07:35Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I prefer Tom Benzadril . Or Tim Benzedrine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-speculation-the-terrible-secret-of-tom-bombadil/666980.md?page=2)